South Carolina Senate Passes Open Carry Bill

Herschel Smith · 06 May 2021 · 9 Comments

News from South Carolina. Gun owners permitted to carry concealed weapons in the state of South Carolina are soon likely to join residents in 45 other states who can carry their hand guns openly in public — a proposal that has frustrated gun-control advocates, doctors and top law enforcement leaders but was a resounding win for many Republican lawmakers. With three days left on the legislative calendar, the Senate voted 28-16 mostly down party lines after a more than 12-hour debate to…… [read more]

SLED issues guidance on open carry law as start date nears

BY Herschel Smith
1 day, 22 hours ago

News from S.C.

Openly carrying a firearm will be legal in South Carolina starting Aug. 15, and the State Law Enforcement Division is trying to make sure gun owners and law enforcement officers understand this upcoming change.

[ … ]

“Anything as far as protecting our Second Amendment rights, I’m all for any time it comes up,” said state Rep. Cal Forrest, R-Saluda, one of the bill’s early sponsors. “I think what is lost on most people is that it makes South Carolina a Second Amendment sanctuary state.”

A section of the law requires the state Attorney General to review any federal regulation related to the concealed carry of weapons. If the state Attorney General decides the federal action seeks to limit the carrying of weapons, the law says no state funds or employees will be used to enforce it.

[ … ]

In preparation for the act going into effect, SLED worked alongside the state Criminal Justice Academy to develop a training video for law enforcement officers. The video, available through the academy’s online training portal, is required viewing for any law enforcers by Aug. 13.

Greenwood Police Chief T.J. Chaudoin said he’s viewed the video, which goes over the details of the new law. It presents scenarios where officers encounter people openly carrying a firearm, and emphasizes what people’s rights are under the new law. It also went over de-escalation techniques when encountering someone openly carrying a gun.

Deescalation techniques?  Why would they need to learn about deescalation techniques?  Do they intend to harass open carriers?  In spite of the fact that S.C. isn’t a stop and identify state, and the fact that the open carry bill contains no proviso for being stopped by LEOs while openly carrying, do they intend to making unlawful demands of open carriers?

If so, then there will be problems, and they’ll end up in court.

SLED Slow To Figure Out South Carolina’s New Open Carry Law

BY Herschel Smith
2 months ago

Index Journal.

The Index-Journal fielded several questions about the open carry law to Crosby the day after McMaster signed it, but the agency has not answered these questions. What is SLED having to do to adjust for the new requirement to offer handgun education courses? The law says if an applicant is unable to comply with the section requiring them to get training, that SLED will offer a course that does qualify. Who qualifies for those SLED-issued courses, and what will these classes look like?

How will local law enforcement go about enforcing a law that allows CWP holders to openly carry handguns?

McCormick Police Chief Bo Willis said he has received numerous phone calls from people asking about the open carry law. While he hasn’t had any problems with people openly carrying before the law’s enactment date, he said last week he’s still waiting on guidance from SLED on how to enforce the law.

Since SLED’s day-of news release summarizing the law, they’ve published one press release that only clarifies the implementation date of the law. Crosby couldn’t be reached for comment Tuesday via email or phone call.

The Index Journal hasn’t gotten answers from SLED because SLED doesn’t yet understand.  I’ve tried to explain it.

That’s what LEOs in Texas thought as well – we’ll just walk up and demand to see permits when a call comes in.

That’s not the way this worked out in Texas, and it’s not the way it will work out in South Carolina.  You see, in order to conduct a stop, LEOs need to ensure that it’s a valid “Terry Stop.”  In other words, you have to suspect that a crime has been or is being committed, or else the stop isn’t legal.

It’s not good enough to say that the individual is openly carrying a weapon.  To be sure, if someone is openly carrying and commits a crime leading to detention or arrest, and you ascertain that the individual has no permit, then you can charge him with a crime under the new law.  But then, you could have charged him with a crime under the concealed handgun law as well.  Nothing has changed.

You need to pretend that you can’t see the weapon, because that’s the way the carefully worded law is written.  This is what’s going to happen the first few times such a stop is conducted by LEOs for open carriers.

LEO: “Sir, I need to see your permit.”

Person A: “Sure, but you’re being videoed and this video will end up in court, and I need to ask you two questions.  First of all, am I being detained, and if so, do you suspect me of a crime?  In other words, is this a so-called “Terry Stop?”  Second question.  Does S.C. have a “stop and identify statute?”

The LEO is in a very hard place.  If the LEO says that person A is suspected of a crime, the proper response is, “What crime?”  To which he can give no valid response.  If the LEO says that person A is not suspected of a crime, question #2 becomes salient, and I assure you, S.C. has no stop and identify statute.

In other words, it is not legal for a LEO to conduct this stop for openly carrying.  Finally, you should read the bill again.  The open carry bill approved into law by the governor does not expand S.C. to include any sort of stop and identify stipulation, either under this statute or any other.  You can read it again for yourself.

Here is a much better idea.  Train your 911 operators to respond to callers with this information: “Ma’am, open carry is now legal in S.C.  Are you calling to report any other criminal activities?  Is this person brandishing the weapon or threatening anyone?  If not, we need to hang up.”

If you don’t follow this counsel, the two questions I posed above will be heard in court very soon.

SLED doesn’t know how they’re going to enforce the new law because South Carolina has no stop and identify statute, and neither should it.

You cannot (and should not be able to) stop someone who is doing nothing illegal.  The law as signed stipulates that a permit is required to be able to legally openly carry in S.C.  But there is no provision in existing statutory framework or in the recently signed open carry bill that makes provision for stopping people who are openly carrying to demand identification and permit.

But despite my best efforts, I cannot seem to interest anyone in the coming problems.  It’s not a problem to me, especially since I believe the S.C. legislature should have passed constitutional carry.  No permit should be required.

But it will soon be a problem with law enforcement if they think they are going to stop every open carrier they see to demand identification.

And by the way, try to reach any South Carolina law enforcement via email, whether Sheriff’s Association, city law enforcement, county law enforcement, or SLED.  It cannot be done.  They do not make their email addresses known to the public.

Open Letter To South Carolina Law Enforcement Concerning Open Carry

BY Herschel Smith
2 months, 2 weeks ago

First of all, there are good, healthy views among South Carolina LEOs concerning the recent changes to S.C. law concerning open carry.

“I think this can definitely be a very positive thing. I think as the sheriff, you know I believe that guns could certainly be a deterrent for a bad guy when considering committing a crime upon a victim,” Anderson County Sheriff Chad McBride said. “It’s going to be something new that we have to get used to and the public will have to get used to of course. Walking into a location or at a location where it is allowed to carry and seeing that and it not being a law enforcement officer.”

“I love it because it’s the second amendment. Our second amendment right guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms,” Spartanburg County Sheriff Chuck Wright said. “If you are going to be responsible enough to carry something of that magnitude it is your responsibility to train with it right.”

But then there is massive confusion and lack of mental preparation.

Greenville City Police Chief Howie Thompson has some fear about South Carolina’s open-carry law that was signed into law Monday.

Gov. Henry McMaster signed the “Open Carry with Training Act” bill, which will allow people with concealed weapons permits to openly carry firearms.

One of Thompson’s fears is for those carrying guns.

“Everyone will see it, and if someone who is committing a criminal act goes in and sees someone carrying a gun, well now the person who is carrying becomes a threat,” he said.

Thank you for your concern sir, but it’s misplaced.  Open carriers can handle the pressure.  But this next part is more likely to get someone hurt.

Another concern Thompson has deals with law enforcement officers. Thompson said if someone saw another person who is carrying legally and calls law enforcement to investigate, law enforcement  will not know if  the person has a permit to carry. Thompson thinks service calls for visible guns will increase.

They’re going to ask for the permit, and maybe the person feels harassed, but in reality the police are just following up on a service call and making sure the person has a permit,” he said.

So this is a massive problem.  Allow me a moment to explain.

That’s what LEOs in Texas thought as well – we’ll just walk up and demand to see permits when a call comes in.

That’s not the way this worked out in Texas, and it’s not the way it will work out in South Carolina.  You see, in order to conduct a stop, LEOs need to ensure that it’s a valid “Terry Stop.”  In other words, you have to suspect that a crime has been or is being committed, or else the stop isn’t legal.

It’s not good enough to say that the individual is openly carrying a weapon.  To be sure, if someone is openly carrying and commits a crime leading to detention or arrest, and you ascertain that the individual has no permit, then you can charge him with a crime under the new law.  But then, you could have charged him with a crime under the concealed handgun law as well.  Nothing has changed.

You need to pretend that you can’t see the weapon, because that’s the way the carefully worded law is written.  This is what’s going to happen the first few times such a stop is conducted by LEOs for open carriers.

LEO: “Sir, I need to see your permit.”

Person A: “Sure, but you’re being videoed and this video will end up in court, and I need to ask you two questions.  First of all, am I being detained, and if so, do you suspect me of a crime?  In other words, is this a so-called “Terry Stop?”  Second question.  Does S.C. have a “stop and identify statute?”

The LEO is in a very hard place.  If the LEO says that person A is suspected of a crime, the proper response is, “What crime?”  To which he can give no valid response.  If the LEO says that person A is not suspected of a crime, question #2 becomes salient, and I assure you, S.C. has no stop and identify statute.

In other words, it is not legal for a LEO to conduct this stop for openly carrying.  Finally, you should read the bill again.  The open carry bill approved into law by the governor does not expand S.C. to include any sort of stop and identify stipulation, either under this statute or any other.  You can read it again for yourself.

Here is a much better idea.  Train your 911 operators to respond to callers with this information: “Ma’am, open carry is now legal in S.C.  Are you calling to report any other criminal activities?  Is this person brandishing the weapon or threatening anyone?  If not, we need to hang up.”

If you don’t follow this counsel, the two questions I posed above will be heard in court very soon.

Listen to me when I say this.  Ask your prosecuting attorney about what I’ve said.  They’ll back me up because I’m right.

South Carolina Governor Signs Open Carry Bill Into Law

BY Herschel Smith
2 months, 2 weeks ago

News from South Carolina.

Gov. Henry McMaster said Monday he signed into law a bill allowing people with concealed weapons permits from the state to carry their guns in the open.

McMaster posted on Twitter that he was keeping his promise to sign any bill that protects or expands gun rights.

The proposal allows so-called open carry of guns for people who undergo training and background checks so they can keep guns hidden under a jacket or other clothing or in their vehicle anywhere there isn’t a sign prohibiting it.

The law takes effect in 90 days. Thus, in mid-August, South Carolina will no longer be with California, Florida, Illinois and New York to prohibit any type of open carry.

The law eliminates a $50 permit fee to get a concealed weapons permit and lowers the number of bullets that someone must fire at a target in an accuracy test to get a permit from 50 to 25 shots. Requirements remain that a permit holder be 21 or over, take eight hours of training and pass a background check that includes fingerprinting.

My S.C. Open Carry tag has dozens of columns, articles and commentaries, which I’ve sent around hundreds of times to fellow gun rights activists in South Carolina, S.C. members of the House and Senate, and readers.  Additionally, I’ve met people face to face to discuss this, sent other letters to politicians, both local and state, and sent letters to CLEOs to rebut their efforts to deny open carry to South Carolinians, pointing out in excruciating detail on every point how they were wrong and disloyal to the constitution.

This is a big win, a hard fought victory.  I’m celebrating tonight over this.

But the fight isn’t over.  They denied constitutional carry this time around.  We’ll go in baby steps as incrementalists.  I have no objections to incrementalism.

Open carry this year, constitutional carry next year.

Gov. McMaster to sign new Open Carry bill soon, says spokesman

BY Herschel Smith
2 months, 2 weeks ago

News from South Carolina.

The House approved the Open Carry bill 83-34 on Wednesday and then signed off on the changes made by the Senate.

It now heads to Gov. McMaster’s desk where he will sign it “soon,” says a spokesman.

Why not today, governor?  What are you waiting for?

South Carolina ‘Open Carry With Training’ gun bill passes, heads to governor for signature

BY Herschel Smith
2 months, 3 weeks ago

News from South Carolina.

South Carolina’s legislature has passed a bill changing state gun laws to allow open carry of guns for people who completed training and pass a background check.

The state’s House of Representatives passed the “Open Carry With Training” bill by an 83-34 vote on Wednesday, following the state Senate’s approval of the bill a week earlier.

With the General Assembly’s approval, the bill now heads to Gov. Henry McMaster’s desk for his signature. The governor has said he will sign it.

So remember that the S.C. Senate passed open carry with amendments to the House bill.  This was a House vote on acceptance of the Senate amendments.  It succeeded with lots of margin.

The next step is the signature of the governor, who has said he will sign it.  His political future would be in shambles if he didn’t.

Listening To The S.C. “Debate” On Open Carry Live

BY Herschel Smith
3 months ago

Listening while I work.

This is out of control.  They have no control over what’s going on.  There are delays, discussions on impertinent issues, bringing things up that are not germane, attempts to delay, long winded yapping and yapping, more delays, attempts to amend, more attempts to amend, and on and on and on.

What a bunch of yappy red neck pols.  The senator from Charleston is the absolute worst, and no one will shut him up.  He can barely speak comprehensible English.  He’s just droning on and on and on and on, and my prediction is that the parliamentary rulings will allow this bill to die due to complete incompetence.

Do they not follow Robert’s Rules of Order?  Can no one shut all of this up?  Can no one “call the question?”

UPDATE: Unbelievable.  One senator is trying to amend the bill to force open carriers to “wear some sort of identification to let law enforcement know they are legally openly carrying.”

Wear the scarlet letter, peasant!  What a bunch of rednecks.

UPDATE #2: Now one senator is arguing that this is going to be Tombstone, and people should even refrain from answering knocks in the middle of the night while carrying a weapon because it might put law enforcement ill at ease.  Seriously.  Bad things are going to happen.  Awful things.  The sky is falling.  The boogey man is coming for us.  Run, hide.  The boogey man is coming!!!!

It’s going to be the wild west.  Blood running in the streets.  Blue lives matter.  Gore everywhere.

This is almost too hard for me.  I’m doing this so you don’t have to.

UPDATE #3: Senator offers up an amendment to allow open carry of weapons inside the chambers of the S.C. senate.  I’m certain this was offered up as a poison pill.  While I would be in favor of this amendment, I would probably vote against it because they just want to kill the bill.  The amendment fails.

They’re pulling every trick in the book.  I’m sure they’ve been schooled by “Moms against everything.”

UPDATE #4: Amendment to expand the bill to include open carry allowed in all state buildings, including county and city owned buildings (he’s the first senator I’ve heard at the podium who can actually speak English).  One senator objects that people can carry guns on the beach.  We all know that this is pointing towards businessmen worried about Myrtle Beach tourism and the objections of “The Karens.”

UPDATE #5: Good grief.  Senator is lobbying for an amendment for LEOs to temporarily confiscate firearms.  Good grief.  LEOs should never touch another man’s weapon.  This is stupid.

UPDATE #6: They’re making all the same mistakes that Texas did, where LEOs will be confiscating weapons until permits have been shown.  Handling of weapons causes NDs.  Stupid.

South Carolina Senate Vote On Open Carry Today

BY Herschel Smith
3 months ago

News from S.C.

COLUMBIA, S.C. (WCSC/AP) – State lawmakers are expected to hold a final vote Thursday on a bill that would allow people with concealed weapons permits to openly carry their guns.

So it comes down to a vote today.  At this point I’m not sure what else can be done.  Calls to senate aids might still help if you’re so inclined.

Constitutional Carry Amendment To Open Carry Rejected By the S.C. Senate

BY Herschel Smith
3 months ago

News.

South Carolina senators debating a bill that would allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry their guns on Wednesday rejected an attempt to get rid of the requirement for the permits.

Senators voted 25-21 against the so-called constitutional carry amendment after several hours of debate.

It would have allow anyone who can legally own a gun to carry it anywhere the weapons are legally allowed.

The Senate was on its second day of debate on a gun bill that Republicans rapidly brought to the Senate floor. The bill would allow anyone who passes the background check and a roughly eight-hour course to get a South Carolina concealed weapons permit to carry their pistol in the open.

Senators adjourned about 7:15 p.m. Wednesday and said they expected a final vote on the bill after several hours of debate Thursday.

Several Republican leaders in the Senate weren’t ready to go as far as open carry without a permit.

“I think training and background checks are important,” said Senate Majority Leader Shane Massey, a Republican from Edgefield.

Well I could be disappointed in Shane Massey, and it was a valiant effort on the part of the 21 who voted in favor of the amendment.  But as for disappointed, maybe not.

Maybe Shane knows something we don’t.  Perhaps he knows that this was a poison pill, one that would doom open carry from passing because he knows whether they have the votes.

If that’s the case, then let’s move on.  As I’ve said before, let’s be incrementalists.  Open carry this year, constitutional carry next year.

The ninnies, frightened and the tepid must see for themselves when the state is let out of its cage that the sky doesn’t fall like law enforcement and “The Karens” said it would.

They’re like a frightened, psychologically stunted animal who has been caged its entire life, afraid to leave the confines of its own imprisonment.

Let’s be smart about this.  Move on.

We’re watching.

Open carry.  Let’s get it done guys.  Proceed with intentionality and purpose.

Move it.


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