The System Has Already Burned Down

BY Herschel Smith
3 years, 7 months ago

BLM has made their intentions clear.

A Black Lives Matter leader told Fox News on Wednesday evening that if they are not given what they want then they will “burn down” the system.

Hawk Newsome, head of Black Lives Matter for Greater New York, part of the neo-Marxist Black Lives Matter movement, made the remarks in a combative interview with Fox News anchor Martha MacCallum.

[ … ]

“If this country doesn’t give us what we want then we will burn down the system and replace it,” Newsome responded. “All right. And I could be speaking figuratively, I could be speaking literally. It’s a matter of interpretation. Like let’s be very real and observe the history of the 1960s. When black people were rioting we have their highest growth and wealth and property ownership.”

People have begun to look to the future and what it may look like.

America faces three scenarios.

  • One: Trump is re-elected on a wave of anger over the looting and anarchy unleashed by the “I-Can’t-Breathe” narrative. Trump sends Javanka packing, dispatches the troops to restore order, extends the immigration moratorium, finally builds the wall, and begins mass deportations as the White House protects the dissident Right from deplatforming by the Tech Totalitarians.

That scenario is most likely a fantasy.

[ … ]

  • Two: Trump loses, and the Blob and its allies triumph. But because this is a country now and not a nation, with no shared sense of common identity and agreed-upon history, culture, beliefs, or language, only a full-blown police state can hold it together.

Even that might not ensure order in a chaotic post-America, and the diminishing number of whites will surely not enjoy the protection of the state. At some point, white Americans might well be living like white South Africans, ever in fear for their lives.

[ … ]

  • Three: The country breaks apart, and the Historic American people establish enclaves for themselves and others who love and fondly remember the old America.

Those scenarios are possible, except for #1.  Actually, #2 could only ever be temporary, as I don’t even believe that a full blown police state could hold it together.  Neither do others, I suspect, as witness the massive gun and ammunition buying spree Americans are currently on.

But burning the system down isn’t something that will happen in the future- it’s already happened.  The fruits of Horace Mann (1796 – 1859) and John Dewey took a long time to ferment, but they did, and their children now self flagellate over “wokeness” and whiteness and imaginary infractions and sins, all the while ignoring the maker of the universe, the only sovereign, and the only potentate who can legitimately demand loyalty and obedience.

The real root of the problem lies not in the current disembowelment, but rather, that it is a replacement religion for the vacuum left by the utter and complete failure of classic Christianity in the West.  True religion, Christianity, was under attack for centuries by German higher criticism and modern philosophy, but actually held fairly strong in America until about the early 20 century.

By that time, the influence of John Darby (1800 – 1882) had begun to be felt, and his acolyte Scofield (1843 – 1921) popularized his ideas.  Mann’s ideas would have had little traction had it not been for a weakened, decimated Christianity that believes that the world is getting worse and worse and worse and Jesus is coming soon, and rather than “take every thought captive” to the claims of Christ, as the Calvinist would say, the job of the Christian is to make converts, cloister and expect the soon release from the hell that the church themselves created by turning their backs on the world.

Rather than be salt and light as commanded, the church turned over science to Darwin, the arts to the pagans in Hollywood, and politics and law to the demons in Washington and their “expert” linguists in the schools of law to teach them how to twist every word ever spoken.  The racists want reparations, or more redistribution of wealth (a colloquial term for theft), the woke mob is even now targeting STEM, and the Marxists want to tear down now just statues, but every vestige of Western history and culture, most especially the church.

America is not going to rupture, it has already ruptured.  The framework had begun to be hatcheted some century or more ago.  The American church is to blame.  “Go forth and make disciples” became “Go forth and snatch brands from the fire before we all get a free ride out of here, and maybe there will be football, beer and brats in heaven.”  The church got one half of it right, but therefore all of it wrong because it missed the “disciples” part of it.

Dispensational, premillennial rapturism neutered American Christians and rendered them pathetic; it is the greatest lie and hoax ever perpetrated on the Christian church.  If you’re looking for a root cause of all of the pain and suffering we are soon to endure, look no further than ourselves.


  1. On June 29, 2020 at 7:55 am, AZM said:

    Rex just talked about a similar topic, the confusion about “turning the other cheek.”

  2. On June 29, 2020 at 8:09 am, Fr. John+ said:

    Having lived through the destruction of my homeland, as well as the horrors of Vatican Eww, and the almost total dissolution of my faith, I put my trust in the hands of the Chiliasts in my ’20’s, and soon realized this was not only a dead-end, but a HERETICAL dead-end (Thank God my Irish mother was astute enough about the Jews, to NEVER let me trust any of them- or theologies that raised them up, where they did not belong [ John 8:44]!).

    But that ‘gut knowledge’ showed me a way out of the Scofieldism… The Calvinists (as you mentioned) had all the right theology, but not the heart- either to martial law everything, or to liturgize people into seeing that the wealth of Western Civ. was our patrimony, when we still could. We prated on about Post-mil conversions, even as we didn’t stand behind the Moral Majority in seeking a Putsch, when we could have.

    Even Rushdoony’s matching KJV and 1928 BCP on his desk (when visiting) came too late to help the Orthodox Pharisee Church, even as it gave him [RJR] the catholicity he had so longed for, in returning (via a sort) of his own Orthodox roots. And worst of all, the ‘Scoba-dox’ partook of the ‘exceptional nation’ blather, in their impossible attempts to become WASPS- just as we Whites fell below majority status in sheer numbers via Celler-Hart; and these ‘Pseudo-dox’ did so, by ‘marching in solidarity with MLK; Iakovos, Anathema!) via tomos of autocephaly from the KGB; via ‘modernizing’ the Liturgies (and theology) of the East; via seeking to be ‘multicultural’ at the very point Catholics had said ‘basta’ to the same- you think the Byzantines would learn, for once! And all this, as J2P2 was holding congresses with ‘doctrines of demons’ in Assisi…

    Lastly, these cowardly Byzantines actively sought to trample on St. Tikhon Belavin’s vision of an AMERICAN [read, Anglo/white] Orthodoxy, what with their Ay-rab ‘Cowboy’ Bishops, their Fordham-educated Jesuit monastics, their hatred for the WR, and their abortion-wielding and sodomite-friendly lay people- who could quote every line of My Big Fat Greek Wedding I (& II-Opa!) but DIDN’T feel uncomfortable when their Stephanopouloses, Dukakises, Jefferts-Schoris, George Michaels, and the like showed their cultural, sexual, and religious apostasy on nation-wide newscasts and movie screens, nightly- they all sold their birthright for a mess of multicultural potage.

    Nothing short of a massive national repentance can save this nation, now. EVERYTHING you said in this article is both true, valid, and damning. The N-words are merely the latest “shabbas goyim” of the latter-day Babylonians, come to destroy Jerusalem in our ‘green and pleasant land,’ once more. This time, however, the sons of the Devil also have the curse and stench of Deicide about them; which means they are even more evil, ‘for they know their time is short.’ One lone Austrian painter tried to warn us, and we were too ‘civilized’ to hear him. One great American aviator warned us as well, and we suffered for our deafness on the same day, 60 years later. [9/11: 2001-1941=60] Dancing Israelis, indeed…

    So, we must tread the path to Golgotha once more, because we have been unfaithful traitors to Jesus Christ. The Bolsheviks point us irrevocably to the fallacy of ‘trusting the Jew,’ with their Dictators, their ‘year zero,’ their recurring anarchic version of: Five-year plans/Holodomor/Cold War/New Deal/Campus Riots/Civil Rights/Women’s Rights/Gay Rights/BLM, AD NAUSEAM…. and the attendant death camps and mass shootings that are the ultimate end of all this Plandemical, anarchic godlessness. May the Almighty have mercy on the faithful in this land, and may he give his true shepherds the ability to call out the heresy in our midst, which is so great… Before it is too late. Give us a LEADER, Lord God, and not an orange coward. Give us a true KING like unto Christ, to smite the evil from this, our apostate land. Destroy the Infidel.

  3. On June 29, 2020 at 8:27 am, Chris said:


    The Bible colleges and theological seminaries have been teaching the premillennial theology for years. I think reinforced by the two World Wars and the carnage in Europe. The majority of pastors have been trained in this ‘brainwashed’ theology and haven’t investigated the historical context of the Bible. They take as whole cloth these ideas. If they will see that Daniel and Revelations can’t be projected into the future but were written prior to the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70, then they can’t support the premillennial view. Point to ponder, does premillennialism excite our fleshy nature? Is our emotional side excited by these visions of woe and end time battles?

    As you’ve written Captain, theological training has been just tend to your own garden and wait for the Rapture. Well, how long have we waited? It’s always imminent.

  4. On June 29, 2020 at 8:44 am, penses said:

    I guess Rump’s conquest of Mars will have to wait, say, another 1000 yrs. Right now there is not enough IQ to get into orbit making interplanetary travel out of the question.

    1000yrs. That’s how long it took the people of the Balkans to get their homelands back.

    There is no Judeo-Christian anything, the two are incompatible. It is the chink in the armor that keeps Christianity off balance, constantly teetering on collapse. Christianity needs to rid itself of this virus. It goes all the way back to Jerusalem and Peter and his unwillingness to part with the old. It is an abomination and Paul seeing it, left the pit of vipers and changed the world forever by spreading the gospel to the world, knowing that was the Plan Jesus put forth.

    All of my life I have heard and read that the USA was a “Christian country,” founded on Christian principles. That the Constitution and Declaration of Independence were primarily influenced by Christ’s teachings. Wrong.

    The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are products of the Enlightenment, a movement that declared God is dead and man the measure of all things. Luciferian in concept and method, Muh Constitution had no teeth because it provided for no state religion, no immigration laws and no defined borders. The DoI embraced the universal concept of Liberty, Fraternity, and Equality. Utilitarianism and humanism are the highest tenets of enlightenment freemasonic philosophy. Trying to create a society outside the power of God made civilization impossible.

    Give me your poor, your tired and weak, blah, blah, blah. Before the ink was dry Franklin was lamenting the fact that Pennsylvania was filling up with Germans.

    Marx did not have to write his book. It tenets were already being carried out by the Masonic illuminati who were laying the foundation for what would later be a new world order. The reason America was settled so fast was because most Christians were running away from a secular government that kept filling the country with immigrants, providing cheap labor for business and passing more and more laws that were, for the most part, unconstitutional, depriving citizens of more and more freedom. Now Amerikka is on the precipice of dissolution from the weight of “enlightened” legislation, most of which denies Muh Constitution and God. When you don’t subject yourself to the rule of God this is always the destination.

    Giving the State legislatures the power to appoint Senators was meant to be a check on federal power. The 17th Amendment took that power away (the Masonic Demons again) by making the direct election of Senators law, making once and for all States Rights a dead letter by neutering the 9th and 10th Amendments. Senators are a Federalist notion and make a bicameral legislature make sense. They put a check on the will of the people by giving the state governments a say. Convincing people to steal power from the state and give it to the people is very easy when they dine on democratic rhetoric, turning a bicameral legislature into a two headed monster, that negotiates away all their Constitutional power so they never have to lose political power, leading to the judicial and executive branches having legislative, executive, and judicial powers. When a fiat is issued by the executive branch or another penumbra is discovered by the judiciary they end up creating statutes out of thin air nullifying part of the Constitution.

    The Founders were wrong about First Amendment and religious freedom. Writing this concept into a body of law make it legal to believe in anything (decadence, debauchery, depravity) and the fruit of that vine is ripening before our eyes. The only solvent for religious freedom are laws against blasphemy. What this country needs most is an inquisition.

    Who opposes Jesus Christ. Everything follows from that.

    God promised not to drown Satan’s minions again. That leaves fire and ice.

  5. On June 29, 2020 at 8:57 am, Ned2 said:

    A totalitarian police state will have virtually no effect in rural America, so they’ll have to up their game. But the Feds are powerless up here in the boonies, and with a full blown civil conflict, they’ll not even have the resources to police suburbia.
    I think we should all be reading about the war in Bosnia again.

  6. On June 29, 2020 at 10:03 am, Fred said:

    Instead of lament, here is the solution.

    Standing Orders

    The job is to conquer the world in the name and power of Jesus Christ. Nobody is coming to save us.

    Military language may be used throughout but His is not an armed conquest. Our Lord commands His disciples to conquer the world by the power of God, the Holy Spirit in us, wielding His sword through proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is not hyperbole, it is your God ordained duty in service of the One who saved you from the wrath and death and hell that you deserve and has given you internal life, this life being in His Son.

    A standing order is one that is given by a commander, in this case the thrice holy resurrected Christ of God, Jesus, in order to set expectations in a general outline with specific goals set forth. If you check the web one finds ridiculous and mostly conflated understandings of General Orders and Standing Orders.

    In bible terms I would suggest that General Orders are the Commandments of Sinai, excepting the ceremonies, and as re-stated in summery outline by our Lord:
    “Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

    Nothing could be more clearly stated than Acts 1:8 and Mark 16:15 and Matthew 28:16-20. These are our Standing Orders.

    “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” Acts 1:8

    “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” Mark 16:15

    Acts 1:8 doesn’t really cross reference with Matthew 28, and we find out why when examining the “Great Commission.” More on that below. The great commission is what we are given Standing Orders to accomplish in the believer, to teach Him all that Christ Jesus commands, the entirety of Scriptures.

    In Acts 1:8, we receive the Standing Order to all believers to be witnesses for Jesus Christ unto the ends of earth. This is precisely a Standing Order of God put forth so as to instruct us what our job is in the Kingdom of God while we work toward His return. Acts 1:8 is the tip of sword of the Gospel we are to wield at every soul on earth, giving them the stark choice under the threat of wrath and death and hell or the blessings of eternal life and even a seat in His throne in heaven with Christ Jesus. This is the choice and it is the Standing Order to every Christian to tell every soul, whosoever and howsoever you may meet them.

    What is the power of God but to raise dead souls to the newness of life by the salvation offered through the precious blood of the Son of Holy God? If you are a believer, you are the temple of the Holy Spirit; you have the Holy Spirit of God in you by which you get the power to live and work for Jesus. Once you believe, you become a witness for Jesus Christ, witness being a legal term for which you will be held to account at the Judgement.

    We are to show, by opening the Scriptures, that Christ died shedding His blood to cover the sins of the lost sinner, and that He was buried, and that he rose again the third day. (1 Corinthians 15:3-6) Every believer, although not called to be a Preacher proper as from the pulpit, but all are called to share the Gospel, to win souls to Christ. It is the Holy Spirit of God that convicts and saves the lost sinner; you are His witnesses, His messengers of the good news of Jesus Christ.

    Under this Standing Order all resources must ultimately be used directly in support of this tip of spear mission that Christ Jesus has given to every believer. Tell every soul the Gospel, this is a direct order of Holy God!

    “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Pete 3:9

    God wants that no man should die. But how can they know? How can the lost sinner be converted to Christ?

    “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!” Romans 10:14-15

    Don’t confuse the Gospel of Peace with anything other than peace, in Christ Jesus. It’s not a feeling or how to get along with the lost world. The glad tidings are the resurrection of Jesus Christ fulfilling the promises of Holy God of salvation and eternal life. This is the good news.

    Every soul on earth must needs hear the Gospel. It is not a limited ministry in any sense at all. God wants all people to be saved by belief in the finished work of His Son on cross.

    This is fairly simple. It is the Standing Order of the Captain of our salvation to all believers; be a witness unto the uttermost parts of the earth. Simple does not mean easy, I realize this. For every soul I’ve seen claim salvation as Holy God claimed their soul as reconciled, I’ve spent as many as 2 hours in prayer and study teaching myself how and what brings the lost to respond, as the lost sinner and the Holy Spirit of God have a conversation about the sinner’s condition and the promises and duties of salvation in Jesus Christ that is offered to all men. It takes work. The number of hours worked per soul converted reduces over time as we gain experience in sharing the Gospel but much effort must be placed up front. All of the evil of this world and every hindrance that devils can offer must be overcome. Have you ever seen sled dogs break out the frozen skids before they can run? Nobody but God will be on your side if you decide to take this on, unless you are fortunate enough be around a very mature and seasoned (well salted) group of believers.

    Now on to the Great Commission. The greatness of the Great Commission is also not to be reduced or watered down. It is a separate Standing Order and the natural follow-on conclusion to winning the lost sinner back to God, as it was always God’s plan to have fellowship with them. The great commission is the work in support of making yet more converts to the way, the truth, and the life of Jesus Christ.

    And just as in Acts 1:8, this following mission to make men and women competent Christians able to fight with the sword of God’s Holy Word, starts with power, the power of God in us. Matthew 28:18.

    “Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:16-20

    The job is to conquer the world in the name and power of Jesus Christ. The greatest obstacle that you may face could likely be your fellow believers. Nobody is coming to save us.

    More about the Great Commission:

    A Great Commission: The Holy Bible Explains.

  7. On June 29, 2020 at 10:11 am, BOB said:

    A great post, and a spot on summary of the dangers of the pre-trib rapture belief. Many Christians have basically stopped working for the kingdom and are just waiting for Jesus to come and take them home. As we know, this has happened many times in the past, when groups of believers have sold all their possessions,withdrawn from the world, and have gone to a remote place to wait for his return..only to have their faith crushed (sometimes permanently) when it does not happen. The modern criticism for this trend would be that these Christians are “so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good.” It isn’t the fact that they believe in a pre-Trib rapture that’s a problem; scriptural arguments can be made for and against this view. The problem arises when we stop sharing the gospel because we believe our work for the kingdom is done.

    I also read the link to your thorough 2012 post on the pacifism of Christian sheep. I have been a committed Christian for 35 years and have heard the “we are commanded to turn the other cheek” and the “thou shalt not kill” arguments ad nauseum. It is the signal tragedy of our age that many Christians do not understand our own scriptures.

    The context of “turn the other cheek” has nothing to do with self-defense or the defense of innocents. It was Jesus’ way of explaining, using a cultural norm of that era, that his followers should sin by taking revenge or by overreacting in anger to relatively minor offenses.

    There is a similar misunderstanding about the Sixth Commandment, which, in every credible translation of the Bible, says “You shall not MURDER” not “you shall not KILL.” Even non-Christians know the difference between murder and killing, as defined in our criminal codes. Yet, I have debated with many believers who have said that we should never take a human life because life is sacred to God. This falsely assumes that one person’s life more sacred or valuable to God than another…that my choosing to spare an attackers life and sacrifice mine is preferable to God.

    The other protest I frequently hear is that we might be killing someone who has never heard the gospel, and therefore that person’s blood will be on our hands. My response to this is that unless we previously had an opportunity to share the gospel with that person and failed to do so, we are not responsible before God for his/her death.

    I believe that the erroneous view of Jesus as a wimpy pacifist that many Christians have probably underlies both of these misunderstood scriptures.

  8. On June 29, 2020 at 10:23 am, Herschel Smith said:

    “The other protest I frequently hear is that we might be killing someone who has never heard the gospel, and therefore that person’s blood will be on our hands.”

    That may actually be the dumbest objection I’ve ever heard. It assumes that the world is controlled by chance rather than the eternal decrees. I am a Calvinist, and so I do not believe in the sorcery and witchcraft of “chance.”

    Quoting Is 46:10 and Eph 1:11 should be enough to destroy that objection if the objector is a thinking man. If not, it doesn’t make sense to argue with men who do not think.

  9. On June 29, 2020 at 10:29 am, Fred said:

    I never understood the argument against; “thou shalt not kill.” It means we are not to kill except in the preservation of life. It ain’t hard and is reflected perfectly in the laws and DA opinions even thousands of years later in my own state of Tennessee; the threshold being “a reasonable man fears for his life or the life of another” understanding that the threat must be immediate.

    The problem is mis-application when examining this Command in conjunction with the Scriptures as a whole. I add this dilemma both to lying state run churches and heap it further onto Horace Mann. It ain’t hard, even for an uneducated pedestrian such as myself; life is precious, defend it, because thou shalt not kill.

  10. On June 29, 2020 at 10:37 am, Herschel Smith said:


    I agree. “Thou shall not kill” is moral law, and to understand how that is to be applied requires reading further and understanding the case law in the Scriptures. I means to lie in wait, whereas defending your life isn’t included in that category. One cannot stop with the moral law – he must go on to read the rest of the book. That’s sometimes hard for lazy Americans.

  11. On June 29, 2020 at 12:19 pm, Ned2 said:

    Proper translation is “thou shalt not murder”. If it was “..not kill”, we would have all starved to death around the time Moses came down the hill.

  12. On June 29, 2020 at 12:27 pm, penses said:

    You have to be careful with the KJV. Because that is exactly what it is. King James’ version.

  13. On June 29, 2020 at 12:41 pm, Herschel Smith said:

    @Ned2, penses,

    It doesn’t matter. Read again. You simply cannot stop at the moral law. You have to expand your understanding of the moral law to involve APPLICATION, i.e., the case law. Case law is explained further on in the Holy Writ. It wouldn’t matter if the word is translated (or transliterated) “kill” or “murder.”

    Keep the Sabbath day holy. What does this mean? Does it mean to leave your beasts in the ditch to perish? No, God has gone on and explained what the commandment means for those who are willing to read it.

  14. On June 29, 2020 at 3:05 pm, Fred said:


    Because the Six Commandment of Holy God, just like the 2A, is about duck hunting. BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Oh, sorry, you were serious.

  15. On June 29, 2020 at 3:25 pm, Stefan said:

    You hold some curious notions as to the health of Christianity in the USA.

    Was it not from there that notable heresies flourished, such as the Watchtower Cult, Mormonism, Finney’s poisonous “Modern Revivalism” all the way to Vineyard, Billy Graham, Osteen, Warren, the Televangelists, “tongues” babbling, knockdown “healings”…etc.

    Missions to the lost abroad were spearheaded by Calvinists: Carey, Hudson, Judson etc.

    Pre-Tribulational Theology is not an addition foreign to Calvinism, it began there. Whatever you may think of Darby, he got it elsewhere. As to Scofield, just because an agent of influence is smuggled in, doesn’t corrupt the original doctrine; we’ve been dealing with leaven and leaveners ever since Eden!

    Dominion Theology, the idea that we build the Kingdom of God here on earth, is a far more dangerous idea. It also goes directly contrary to the words of The Lord Jesus about what would happen in the end times, when He was asked directly and specifically about it.

    The Pre-Tribulation doctrine is intended to promote Godly living in an increasingly apostate world. To claim otherwise is false, and cannot be left unchallenged.

    Titus 2:11-13

    Respectfully, I ask you to go over your research on this whole topic again, Herschel.

  16. On June 29, 2020 at 3:30 pm, penses said:

    Fr. John+ said: “Dancing Israelis, indeed…”

    If you want to know what is really wrong with the world buy Mel Gibson a beer.

    If the word jew did not come into existence until 1750 AD, why is it in the Bible referring to people who lived in 3000 BC. The word jew came into existence and brought with it a new Satanic cult, Judeo-Christianity which has become the bane of Western Civilization. Paul walked away from Jerusalem and the seeds of J-C died for 1700 yrs.

    There is a website ( dedicated to the cult’s history and practices

    “Judeo-Christian (or Judaeo-Christian) is a term used to describe the body of concepts and values which are thought to be held in common by Judaism and Christianity, and typically considered (along with classical Greco-Roman civilization) a fundamental basis for Western legal codes and moral values….There has been a lot of misinformation on this subject. Christianity did not emerge from or out of Judaism.” From has a good essay on the topic.

    Soren Kierkegaard summed it up in two words, either/or. Occam’s Razor for Christians. There is one Religion, one God, one Faith. Everything else is anathema. “God is not the author of confusion…” 1 Corinthians 14:33

  17. On June 29, 2020 at 3:40 pm, Herschel Smith said:


    The health of Christianity in America is pitiful.

    As to the rest of it, you have absolutely no earthly idea what you’re talking about. The Montanists were among the first to hold such ridiculous notions of rapturism, and both Augustine and Calvin spoke out against the Montanists. The follow-on cult after the Montanists (although there were some smaller cults in between) was Darbyism.

    Someone is leading you astray by trying to tell you that the Calvinists were somehow connected to this cult.

    “The Pre-Tribulation doctrine is intended to promote Godly living in an increasingly apostate world. To claim otherwise is false, and cannot be left unchallenged.”

    Regardless of why you think it is intended, the doctrine is false. It doesn’t come from the Scriptures. The deliverance of Calvinian theology, at least as it is expressed in English Calvinism, is the WCF, which holds to a “general resurrection and general judgment.” You will also not find rapturism in any continential Calvinian documents (Canons of Dort or Heidelburg Catechism).

    My training is extensive and comes from Dr. C. Gregg Singer, Dr. Douglas Kelly, Dr. Ligon Duncan, etc.

    You’re simply wrong about this.

  18. On June 29, 2020 at 4:12 pm, Herschel Smith said:


    One more point. You don’t craft doctrines based on what you see as a possible outcome, or what you hope to be one outcome. Your doctrines are to be consistent with the deliverance of the word.

    “The Pre-Tribulation doctrine is intended to promote Godly living in an increasingly apostate world.”

    That is the wrong reason to hold to a particular brand of eschatology. Besides, I have no need to use some sort of carnival trick to encourage believers to live a life that increasingly follows Christ (it’s called sanctification, and it happens through the duration of a life, not instantaneously), as I know that they will indeed do that if they really are believers. The Darbyists are typical Armenians who fear the loss of salvation, whereas Calvinists know better.

  19. On June 29, 2020 at 7:43 pm, Ned2 said:

    Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!!!

  20. On June 29, 2020 at 10:36 pm, Stefan said:

    Whichever one of us is correct, these things are certain: things are going to get much worse in our world, there is only one cure for sin, and only One Saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ.

  21. On June 29, 2020 at 10:47 pm, DW said:

    Herschel: Unbelievable post! I am a lost Christian who could never reconcile church preaching / doctrine with the “facts on the ground” as it were. I feel like you have provided some long desired places of study for me. Raised from birth as a Baptist, I never understood, but certainly from your post, recognize the “rapturism” doctrine the church droned into me as a child.

    I will definitely, put some study time/research into some of the folks you reference that you received training from. It’s amazingly reassuring to know that my personal beliefs/faith in God are not unique or misguided. You have sadly done more to restore my faith than a long line of preachers, pastors and priests. Vaya con Dios

  22. On June 30, 2020 at 6:51 am, Fr. John+ said:

    “Every soul on earth must needs hear the Gospel. It is not a limited ministry in any sense at all. God wants all people to be saved by belief in the finished work of His Son on cross.”

    Fred. NO. The entire bible, from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22, is all about ONE race, ONE tribe, ONE people, ONE Ethnos, ONE salvation, and ONE Kingdom, and NONE OTHER.

    If it is about ANY OTHER RACE than Adamkind (and no, Chinese, Blacks, and Amerindians are NOT Adamic! Cf. Solomon Jegede Enaboakpe’s ‘Black Man: Not Descendant of Adam” if you want to argue that point), then it is that they should be our SERVANTS, not our equals. At the VERY LEAST, we need to REMOVE them from our land, in order to have peace… BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

    White men throughout history have known this TRUTH. And only the Lies of Hell, which we now see about us, daily, are the reasons for the BS of Jefferson’s platitudes. Or the false egalitarian universalism of the Roman Cult’s error, which precipitated the Schism of 1054. You cannot invert the Trinity, and expect to continue in the communion of the saints, thereby.

    And ANYONE who believes this crap you iterated, is an ENEMY of Christ God.

    “I hope we can begin to see the enormity of this type of sin, and why many don’t relate to this type of sin today. Hosea 4:1-2: “1 Hear the word of Yahweh, ye children of Israel: for Yahweh hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of Elohim in the land. 2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.”

  23. On June 30, 2020 at 7:00 am, Fr. John+ said:

    Non-Pensant: “Paul walked away from Jerusalem and the seeds of J-C died for 1700 yrs.”

    Wrong. That, too, is utter HERESY. If the Holy Spirit is God (and He is) the promise of JC that ‘he would NEVER leave us NOR forsake US’ is made a lie. If you call yourself a Christian, you CANNOT believe in a ‘BOBO’ theory of the Holy Spirit, as many sectarian, heretical Prots do. [BOBO- Blink on, Blink off]

    There has ALWAYS been a True Church on earth- and no, the H.S. didn’t suddenly appear to Luther, sometime after he formulated his ‘extra-biblical’ verse of saved by grace, ALONE- for that word is not in ANY Bible, MSS, or commentary, until Luther. He ADDED to the WORDS of Holy Scripture, and ADMITTED IT! For that, Brother Martin came under sanction of God, for his blasphemy.

    No, there has been and continues to be the pleroma of the Church, to this day. Where it is, is what Christ God asks us to find. But to say that St. Paul, [commissioned by, and full of, the H.S. to write all his Epistles] was either in error, or contrary to God’s Spirit, is the height of heresy. St. Paul is the way to learn of Christ, as is Moses, Isaiah, Peter, and John.

  24. On June 30, 2020 at 7:42 am, Fred said:

    Wut? I’m God’s enemy for telling people the Gospel of Jesus Christ? *sigh*

  25. On June 30, 2020 at 7:50 am, Fred said:

    @DW, depending on your background a good place to start is with the basics.
    Ken Gentry – Revelation Made Easy
    Ken Gentry – The Oliver Discourse Made Easy

    These two are precursory (secondary level) to further primary education and study in this area. They give excellent entry level overviews.

  26. On June 30, 2020 at 8:20 am, DW said:

    Thanks Fred!

  27. On June 30, 2020 at 8:34 am, Herschel Smith said:


    Awesome! I was just looking last night and was too tired to post it, but I was going to send him in the direction of Kenneth Gentry.

    For what it’s worth, I know Ken from way back. He may still remember me, IDK, but I certainly remember him.

    In addition to being absolutely sizzling smart, he’s a genuinely nice, humble guy.

  28. On June 30, 2020 at 10:39 am, Stefan said:

    DW: a lost Christian? About as believable as an unwatered fish or a featherless bird. Perhaps you mean a Christian with a dearth of brethren, lacking in nourishment of His Word…but even then, if He chose you from before the beginning, He won’t let you wither on the vine. He will have a gain from you, He will perfect you and in His time He will make use of you. Study His word direct, that is a privilege.

    FrJohn+, I do not understand you, perhaps just as well. Sounds very dangerous. And not true. Are you fishing?

    H, see my previous request.

  29. On June 30, 2020 at 11:17 am, Herschel Smith said:


    Request? What request?

  30. On June 30, 2020 at 11:36 am, Fr. John+ said:

    Stefan et al:

    Yes, Ken Gentry is good. But so is Sproul, Schaeffer, Rushdoony, and Chilton.
    Then again, so are the Fathers.

    “, I do not understand you, perhaps just as well. Sounds very dangerous. And not true. Are you fishing?”

    If I can explain, I’d be happy to try. As far as fishing, you mean, for souls? Not on an internet forum, Sir. But truth beats falsehood, any day. And Universalism is a heresy in almost every denomination’s history, up until rather recently.

  31. On June 30, 2020 at 11:37 am, Fr. John+ said:

    “I’m God’s enemy for telling people the Gospel of Jesus Christ? *sigh*”

    Fred- if it WERE the ‘Gospel of Jesus Christ,” we wouldn’t have any argument.
    But remember, even the Mormons say they are preaching merely the ‘Gospel of J.C.


  32. On June 30, 2020 at 12:44 pm, ApoloDoc said:

    Lots of good stuff here. The loss of Biblical literacy is so widespread, but nothing new. By the time of the Reformation, almost nobody outside of SOME Catholic “priests” (gee, I though Hebrews made the whole ‘priest’ issue rather clear) spoke Latin. Some clergy simply memorized the Latin to perform the rituals. Rome put many men to death for daring to translate the Scriptures (originally Hebrew & Greek) into common languages that people actually spoke. You know: German, English, etc!

    We are broken creatures in rebellion from God, and although we are to seek to make disciples & transform our cultures for Christ, ultimately most seem destined to destruction. My beliefs are Amillennial but eschatology in general can be a distraction from the work of sanctification.

    I am listening to RC Sproull preaching through Romans, this morning he just took the turn through the end of Rom 7 into 8. We will wrestle through this until He returns or calls us home. Everybody, regardless of the amount of melanin in one’s skin NEEDS the cross, and sadly for so many blacks MLK & others bought into “liberation theology” and have led so many astray. MLK denied the deity of Christ, I think that says enough right there. There are some black pastors faithfully preaching the Word, but far too few.

  33. On June 30, 2020 at 12:50 pm, Herschel Smith said:


    I didn’t agree with his “classical” approach to apologetics, preferring a presuppositional one, but R.C. is ALWAYS a great one to listen to on anything theological and Biblical.

    The community lost a great one when he died.

  34. On June 30, 2020 at 2:26 pm, Fred said:

    @DW, here’s another. Along similar lines to you. Pastor of 35 teaching and preaching dispensationism (It his testimony but he has said) the Lord lead him out of that herrisy. He has three videos series called the Israel Package 1 2 and 3 containing more than 2 dozens sermons over more than an a year as he lead his congregation out of dispensationalism. They are excellent. He arrived much where Herschel, Gentry, Matthew Henry and others arrive; dispensationalis is false. He’s not a Calvinist (neither am I, technically) so his conclusion he has found to sound are completely independent, as are mine.

    Here’s the link to DVD set one. If you dig on his site all those sermons are there for free if you find by table of contents listed for each of the three dvds, so you don’t have to buy them. I can’t strongly recommend enough that every America watch every last one of these.!/The-Israel-Package-Set-One-8-DVDs-Containing-15-Messages-Featuring-I-Will-Curse-Them-That-Bless-Thee-By-Pastor-Chuck-Baldwin-HUGE-DISCOUNT/p/114020626/category=15986016

    @Stefen, I agree things look to be getting worse. People have through plagues, depressions, world wars, the advent and use atomic weapons, stock market crashes, Romanism, on and on but the Gospel must be proclaimed even as He sets up nations and sets down nations, judges the wicked, and removes empires. To grab a phrase from elsewhere; Can’t stop the signal.

    @Fr. John+, Is Jesus the Son of God? You’ve no idea what I’m telling lost souls, how can you accuse or agree? Secondly, I must apologize, mine is a good solid eighth grade education and I have zero formal training in religion; frankly, I can’t understand what you are saying, so I’m unable to converse with you at the level you desire.

    But know this one and all, I am telling of Jesus Christ everywhere I go. This isn’t an intellectual debate. I am telling the whole world, every last soul on earth the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Will I reach them all on my own, not likely. Cripple, blind, crazy, 5 years and up even earlier if they’ll hear it, black, brown, Saharan, muz, jew, atheist, agnostic, satanist, heathen chinee, cow worshiping dot head, fancy pants rich american honkies, homeless, poor, church going, Catholic, protestant, Eskimo, Don’t care who they think they are nor do I care one iota what anybody else thinks of this. You talk to me, you here about the things of God. I am doing it. It’s not a debate. Period.

    If anybody is interested in learning how to lead a lost soul to the fullness of the realization of Jesus Christ on the cross, I would love to help you get started.

    I’m sharing the Gospel BECAUSE HE is COMING BACK, not in spite of it.

  35. On June 30, 2020 at 2:49 pm, Fred said:

    That should say something more like; he was preaching dispensationalism for 35 years before God showed him the error.

  36. On June 30, 2020 at 5:58 pm, DW said:

    Fred/Herschel: Again thanks for providing some great resources on this issue! As my grandma use to say to me; you better get to listenin’ & learnin’.

  37. On June 30, 2020 at 10:24 pm, Herschel Smith said:

    One more suggestion. This is a GREAT! book by two former dispensationalist pastors who graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary and know the routine better than anyone because they trained in it and lived in it – and then rejected it.

    Dispensationalism Today, Yesterday and Tomorrow, Curtis Crenshaw and Grover Gunn

  38. On July 1, 2020 at 10:14 pm, DW said:

    Book ordered from the amazon link you provided. You seem to have an amazing window into my religious upbringing. I sat thru many a sermon where a donation drive for the Dallas Theological Seminary was a key component. It seemed to me like that place was “Mecca” for Baptist’s.

    Thanks again to you, Fred, Stefan and the rest of the gang for showing me that my path of faith is not a solitary one.


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