More On Liberty Gun Safes
BY Herschel Smith
7 months, 4 weeks ago
Gun safe manufacturer Liberty Safe has said its customers will now be able to have the records of their safe combinations “expunged” after the company faced growing backlash for handing over the access code to one safe to the FBI.
Liberty Safe customers will be able to fill out a form to have records of their safe access codes deleted, meaning they can “take control of how their information is stored and protected,” the manufacturer said in a statement on Wednesday evening.
Earlier on Wednesday, Liberty Safe had said the FBI requested the access code to a safe on August 30, which it gave after seeing proof of a warrant. The safe belongs to 34-year-old Nathan Hughes, who has been charged with felony civil disorder and several misdemeanors relating to the riot at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021.
Civil disorder, and misdemeanors. A misdemeanor is like when your drive over the speed limit. Disorder is just that. Disorder. Remember those charges, and remember that no trial has been conducted yet, so nothing has been proven.
“Our company’s protocol is to provide access codes to law enforcement if a warrant grants them access to a property,” Liberty Safe said on Tuesday evening. “After receiving the request, we received proof of the valid warrant, and only then did we provide them with an access code.”
In the statement posted to social media, Liberty Safe said it was committed to protecting its customers’ personal property and 2nd Amendment rights, “and has repeatedly denied requests for access codes without a warrant in the past.”
Several conservative figures criticized Liberty Safe over the move, with the founder of Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, calling the company “an enemy to gun owners.”
In its updated statement, Liberty Safe said it understands that “many of our customers are willing to assume the responsibility of safeguarding their own combinations,” and those who opt out of the company’s “secure database” will have “limited recourse in case of a lost combination.”
Just like I said should have been the policy all along.
But it may be too little, too late. Especially because of things like this. You knew someone was going to look into this.
Financial contributions made to Democratic political candidates including former President Barack Obama have drawn scrutiny after an executive’s company recently complied with a Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) warrant.
[ … ]
In an additional X post published on Wednesday, Liberty Safe said the company “was founded on the belief that Americans should have the fundamental right to protect and safeguard their valuables and property.”
In September 2021, Liberty Safe was acquired by Monomoy Capital Partners, a private investment firm that has offices in New York and Connecticut and $2.7 billion in committed capital across five investment funds. Liberty Safe operates out of its Payson, Utah, facility.
The manufacturer’s CEO, Justin Hillenbrand, made political contributions to Obama twice when the Democrat was a first-time presidential nominee in 2008, totaling $4,600, according to Federal Election Commission (FEC) records.
Monomoy founding partner Stephen Presser, who died in March, is listed by the FEC as making countless individual contributions to myriad Democrats, including current Senators Raphael Warnock, John Fetterman and Mark Kelly. The company’s max donations over the last 10 election cycles have totaled almost $400,000.
“And we’re supposed to be surprised they betrayed their customers to the FBI as quickly as humanly possible?” Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk wrote on X, formerly Twitter. “Boycott Liberty Safe.”
You know, those folks who talk about that whole “bitterly clinging onto God and guns” thing.
So realize what they did to him. They conducted a red flag raid on him and took his possessions, before a trial and without just reason. You know how we feel about red flag laws. They are unjust, immoral and unconstitutional. They violate due process rights.
Here is the Gestapo trash who effected the theft and firearms confiscation.
Another angle of the FBI arrest of Nathan Hughes over J6
The feds REALLY didn’t want people getting close and videoing them pic.twitter.com/l6UFDMBGT5
— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 7, 2023
On September 8, 2023 at 7:42 am, Okanogan Offgrid said:
The unfortunate fact is that no “Safe” is actually safe when the feds are involved. If they can’t get the code, they will drill it, destroying the lock. If that doesn’t work, they will cut into the safe, destroying it.
Your private property means absolutely NOTHING to them. Your Constitutional Rights mean absolutely NOTHING to them.
On September 8, 2023 at 11:03 am, Frank Trappist said:
My safe dealer kept the records, and since he delivered it… he had the lock SN and theoretically could have obtained the master code for my lock, and he knew where said lock was.
There are only a handful of companies that produce electronic locks for safes… and probably only two that you consider having on a safe– S&G, and AmSec. There could be others that make good locks; I am not a safe-smith. but those are known-good companies with security as their business. AmSec in particular makes very good electronic locks.
Even if Liberty doesn’t keep your info… the lock maker has the code, and your safe dealer probably has the SN needed to obtain the code even if you lost the sticker.
I’ve moved repeatedly; no way my safe dealer knows where that safe is today. So there’s no risk there for me. But it’s something to think about– and something to remember should you ever need to get into a deceased relative’s safe if they removed the SN sticker. I did exactly that in July– got the SN, called a locksmith, they called Browning, and got the master code for that lock. Saved the safe.
On September 8, 2023 at 12:09 pm, Rick said:
I suspect any ‘opt out’ program is inherently faulty. Mainly, the default is you are ‘in’. Additional communications, additional paperwork, additional records are necessary to opt out.
Will your opting out now supercede the previous default setting of opt in? How secure (in perpetuity) is that?
I say there’s no meat behind what Liberty now says. If they truly meant it, the new default would be opt out. Customers would have the option to opt in.
On September 8, 2023 at 2:46 pm, Porkpie said:
The alternative would have been to refuse to comply with the warrant, have their business shuttered and possibly go to jail over it. Not a very prudent business model, and the “Anti’s” would have ‘gamed’ this tactic over and over, the same as they game nuisance lawsuits against firearm manufacturers to drive them (and other safe manufacturers) out of business.
Also, it’s standard practice at many business to donate to candidates of both parties because donations buy you a bit of access, which can be used to promote your business’s political interests. Whenever someone reports on donations to “Party A” and cites it as damning evidence, without mentioning donations made to “Party B” (or not), either they’re completely incompetent or they’re deliberately doing unbalanced reporting that’s indicative of little apart the reporter’s attempt to stigmatize the subject.
No one expected the gutting of the American republic and the weaponizing of federal law enforcement that’s currently underway. And the speed and sheer viciousness it’s proceeding with keeps accelerating, catching everyone unawares. Liberty has been keeping customer’s combinations on file for 35 years. THIRTY FIVE YEARS. And the one guy donated to Bathhouse Barry 15 years ago. Why did the press wait 35 years to hound them about this? Why are the one guy’s political donations just now newsworthy? As little as three years ago (maybe three weeks ago), no one (except the Bathhouse Barry, Bribery Biden, and their henchmen) could have seen this coming. It’s no fault of Liberty’s that they don’t have a magic crystal ball to see the evil the demoncrats plan to foist on us TOMORROW.
I’m not saying Liberty couldn’t have done some things better, but it’s obvious that their “offenses” against 2A/RKBA are being drastically overblown.
The part everybody seems to be missing, and what’s significant about Liberty, is that they sell about the cheapest (national brand) firearm storage that can legitimately be called “a gun safe.” They certainly are the largest manufacturer at that price point. If they go under because the 2A/RKBA gang got their knickers in a twist over their political donations, a goodly segment of the gun-owning community will be priced out of the market, and all the other safe manufacturers will be disincentivized to step up and fill that market niche.
And they wouldn’t be demoncrats if they didn’t at least try to pass laws mandating that all firearms be stored in GOVERNMENT_APPROVED safes. Then gun safes become the new Obamacare, law designed to dry up the free market. Families who only can afford one firearm will have to give it up or be in violation of the law because they can’t turn afford four figures for firearm storage.
So if you come down on Liberty today, then some day soon you find yourself not being able to buy a 12-gun safe for less than $3000, don’t come crying to me.
On September 8, 2023 at 4:29 pm, xtphreak said:
I’ll respond to @Frank Trappist in this new thread.
It’s a personal choice to have a digital lock or a mechanical lock.
Most safes have digital locks because they are less expensive to install.
More secure?
Your call.
Personally, I don’t trust programmed electronics for the very reason shown in this article.
Plus batteries.
Plus electronics just die mysteriously sometimes.
Faster than a dial lock?
OK.
Why would you have all your firearms locked in a safe anyway?
You can have any number of child-proof methods to secure immediate access weapons.
As to your comment about leaving a mechanical lock safe unlocked, I’ve never, in well over 25 years, even been tempted to leave a safe unlocked unless I was actively working with the contents.
As I said, your choice.
And My Choice to go mechanical.
And rotate the wheels of the lock to change the combination.
On September 8, 2023 at 8:45 pm, Elmo said:
xtphreak-
I have two safes, one electronic and one mechanical. When I open the mechanical lock safe regularly, working the dial is almost a muscle memory thing. If it takes more than a few seconds longer than punching six buttons on an electronic lock I’d be surprised.
From the very beginning I’ve always preferred a combination lock. There’s just something about an electronic lock that I’ve never really trusted and something about a combination mechanical lock that I’ve always been completely comfortable with. Maybe it’s just that I’m an old skool kind of guy.
On September 9, 2023 at 2:21 am, Dan said:
This is a tempest in a teapot. It’s not particularly important. If the Criminal Fed Agents want into a safe they will do whatever is necessary to get it open. If they can do so nondestructively without too much effort than that’s what they will do. Otherwise they will resort to other means…such as physically destroying the safe to get it open. Or even the “rubber hose” decryption method. Where they beat the safe owner with a rubber hose till he gives up the combination. But once they have decided they are going to get it open the outcome is already decided. It’s just a matter of time and method. The REAL issue is the criminal misconduct of these Fed agencies/agents. That is a far bigger problem than some company handing over a combination after being served a warrant.
On September 9, 2023 at 8:33 am, Jack Crabb said:
@Porkpie said, “The alternative would have been to refuse to comply with the warrant, have their business shuttered and possibly go to jail over it.”
There was a warrant for the property. Unless it specifically notated that the safe was included in the warrant…
Liberty Safe’s policy at the time: “Our company protocol is to provide access codes to law enforcement if a warrant grants them access to a property.”
So, it sounds like what Liberty did was voluntary. If the safe was named, or if guns were listed on the warrant that is different, but it sounds to me that Liberty folded like a wet paper sack of communist dung.
On September 9, 2023 at 9:20 am, PGF said:
What Liberty should have done is said it’s not out safe. It was purchased free and clear; it’s another man’s property, pound sand. The banker’s usury now extends to all manner of purchases and life; we are all a class of renters, and no man truly owns anything anymore in America.