308 Versus 223 At 1090 Yards

BY Herschel Smith
1 month ago

The post title is correct.  That’s good shooting by both of them.

Of course, she’s shooting a very nice 223 rifle (SAKO) with a very long barrel (24″) along with a heavy bullet (80.5 grain Berger).  But still, that’s good shooting and a great job of taking the 223 out that far.


Comments

  1. On October 26, 2021 at 1:06 am, Chris said:

    20” on either will get that distance and abit more. Predictably if your good in wind.
    Long tubes, for my taste.
    They were gettin it though.
    Love it.

    Thats…A Damn Good Day!!

  2. On October 26, 2021 at 5:36 am, Russell G. said:

    Didn’t watch (UTube ban) but anyone that goes 1000 has got it nailed–break out the cornnuts and suds. You got it on the third sentence, and SAKO has been doing it for a long, long time. Take your regular ’41 Ishy MN 91/30 and match it against a beefy stock’d Fin 28/30 with a SAKO “D” barrel (.308) at, say, 250 with iron’s and the same basic powder load. You’ll see why Simo had an edge on the “Bunny Hoppers”. There’s just something about those barrels. Could be a lot of voodoo or magic going down to the trigger finger, but it works.

  3. On October 26, 2021 at 12:20 pm, ExpatNJ said:

    Thank you Capt for this video. It is good shooting. May I also suggest this:

    “7.62 NATO is amazingly accurate. Mel Tappan (the survivalist gun guru) has reported 100-yard 3-shot groups as small as 3/8 inch. In skilled hands has effective range 1,000 yards, about half a mile. 7.62 NATO is powerful enough to penetrate trees, car bodies, and brick walls with enough energy left over to do lethal damage to an attacker on the far side. 5.56mm is smaller, lighter, less powerful, and less accurate. Effective range 450 yards, but there is question about the man-stopping qualities beyond 150 yards. The guy on the far side of the tree will be relatively safe.” [abridged by ExpatNJ]

    Clayton, Bruce D. Ph.D.
    “Life After Doomsday: A Survivalist Guide to Nuclear War and Other Major Disasters”
    NewYork: DialPress, 1980. 185p. UF767. C621980.

    PS. I own an original paper-back copy of Clayton’s book from when it was first published. I still regard it as one of – if not THE – premier source for info on prepping, survival, and SHTF. Yes, I am partial. For those who wish to read it for yourself, it is available freely now, on-line as a .pdf, from various sources. Considering the times, it might be a good idea to download a copy now.

  4. On October 26, 2021 at 12:51 pm, Herschel Smith said:

    @Expat,

    Then again, Travis Haley was shooting enemy fighters at 600 meters with success in al Najaf.

    But we’re not Travis Haley. At least, I know I’m not.

  5. On October 26, 2021 at 3:20 pm, Elon Muskox said:

    Sticking to numbers and components from the video, my QuickLoad tells me it would have taken 5000 psi over SAAMI max for .223 Rem to get that 80-gr bullet to 2800 fps. I could get it down to 3000 over if I used a seating depth of just 0.10″, which isn’t very practical.

    It doesn’t look like the had to strain but I’m surprised he didn’t need a cheater bar to lift the bolt.

    The performance numbers on the .308, OTOH, are close to the 175-gr FGMM, so the .308 load is pretty middling. QL says AA2208 would do it with more than 4000 psi to spare to SAAMI max.

  6. On October 26, 2021 at 9:48 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:

    Service rifle competitors have been using AR15s with heavy-for-caliber bullets (75+ grains) for some years now to sweep the field at CMP matches, including the slow-fire stage at 1000 yards. Prior to that time, it had been the domain of M-1 Garand and then M-14/M1A rifles. Glen Zediker, one of these competitors, even wrote a book about the new kid on the block, entitled “The Competitive AR15: The Mouse that Roared” (1995).

    ARs are inherently accurate rifles for a number of reasons, but as Zediker notes, it wasn’t the rifles that delayed their ascendance but the lack of suitable LR match projectiles of 75, 80 or more grains, capable of remaining supersonic to 1000 yards and performing well-enough in the wind to displace the older, more-established designs and their loads.

    Loads of 80 grains or more exceed overall length for use in a standard AR15 magazine, which means they have to be loaded singly, but since the LR stages are done slow-fire prone, it isn’t an issue to load each round individually.

    The heavy-for-caliber .224-caliber loads work, but you’d better have your wind game down-pat, because even a projectile that heavy is still substantially lighter than the typical fare used in a .30-caliber service rifle, or for that matter, one rebarreled in 6.5-08 or the like – and will get blown around pretty good by the wind.

  7. On October 26, 2021 at 10:00 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:

    Vis-a-vis long-range performance, for years one of the issues pertaining to .308-caliber projectiles commonly available on the market, including match-grade offerings, was their light-for-caliber selection. Noted ballistician, aeronautical engineer, and owner of Applied Ballistics, Bryan Litz, has written and spoken extensively on the issue – and is one of the industry leaders doing something about it with his line of Berger bullets (he is chief ballistician for Berger).

    Seasoned reloaders and others into this arcane science know that in .308-caliber (7.62mm) projectiles, the B.C. (ballistic coefficient) numbers don’t start to get noticeably good until one hits 190-200 grains or more. This is why many service rifle competitors use 190-grain loads for the longer-range stages, even though the load is approaching the limits of short-action .308 case. By the time one gets into the really juicy B.C. values, you are at 210-grains or more, and probably looking at a long-action case like 30-06, 300 Win-Mag, or the like and not a short-action chambering.

    But if you can tolerate the recoil, and have a rifle with the correct twist barrel, some of these projectiles are superb long-range performers. Which is one reason why the U.S. adopted a three-tiered classification system some years ago for their precision/sniping weapons, namely Light, Medium, and Heavy designations.

    Light – Up to and including .308 Winchester/7.62×51 NATO
    Medium – Inclusive of chamberings between .308 on the low end, the .50BMG on the upper end, including 300 Win-Mag, 338 LM, etc.
    Heavy – .50 BMG and heavier, primarily anti-material weapons

    Competition shooters, however, needn’t worry about things like throw weigh and terminal performance as soldiers do. As long as their load punches paper or rings steel as it is supposed to do and is accurate and consistent, they’re happy. Which is why more and more of the PRS champs these days run 6.5mm (.264-caliber) or 6mm (.243-caliber) set-ups. Highly-accurate, low recoil, excellent precision.

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Leave a comment


You are currently reading "308 Versus 223 At 1090 Yards", entry #28488 on The Captain's Journal.

This article is filed under the category(s) Ammunition,Firearms,Guns and was published October 25th, 2021 by Herschel Smith.

If you're interested in what else the The Captain's Journal has to say, you might try thumbing through the archives and visiting the main index, or; perhaps you would like to learn more about TCJ.

26th MEU (10)
Abu Muqawama (12)
ACOG (2)
ACOGs (1)
Afghan National Army (36)
Afghan National Police (17)
Afghanistan (704)
Afghanistan SOFA (4)
Agriculture in COIN (3)
AGW (1)
Air Force (36)
Air Power (9)
al Qaeda (83)
Ali al-Sistani (1)
America (21)
Ammunition (172)
Animals (117)
Ansar al Sunna (15)
Anthropology (3)
Antonin Scalia (1)
AR-15s (303)
Arghandab River Valley (1)
Arlington Cemetery (2)
Army (80)
Assassinations (2)
Assault Weapon Ban (27)
Australian Army (7)
Azerbaijan (4)
Backpacking (2)
Badr Organization (8)
Baitullah Mehsud (21)
Basra (17)
BATFE (121)
Battle of Bari Alai (2)
Battle of Wanat (18)
Battle Space Weight (3)
Bin Laden (7)
Blogroll (3)
Blogs (23)
Body Armor (21)
Books (3)
Border War (14)
Brady Campaign (1)
Britain (38)
British Army (35)
Camping (4)
Canada (3)
Castle Doctrine (1)
Caucasus (6)
CENTCOM (7)
Center For a New American Security (8)
Charity (3)
China (15)
Christmas (12)
CIA (29)
Civilian National Security Force (3)
Col. Gian Gentile (9)
Combat Outposts (3)
Combat Video (2)
Concerned Citizens (6)
Constabulary Actions (3)
Coolness Factor (3)
COP Keating (4)
Corruption in COIN (4)
Council on Foreign Relations (1)
Counterinsurgency (218)
DADT (2)
David Rohde (1)
Defense Contractors (2)
Department of Defense (191)
Department of Homeland Security (26)
Disaster Preparedness (4)
Distributed Operations (5)
Dogs (12)
Donald Trump (26)
Drone Campaign (3)
EFV (3)
Egypt (12)
El Salvador (1)
Embassy Security (1)
Enemy Spotters (1)
Expeditionary Warfare (17)
F-22 (2)
F-35 (1)
Fallujah (17)
Far East (3)
Fathers and Sons (2)
Favorite (1)
Fazlullah (3)
FBI (32)
Featured (186)
Federal Firearms Laws (18)
Financing the Taliban (2)
Firearms (1,442)
Football (1)
Force Projection (35)
Force Protection (4)
Force Transformation (1)
Foreign Policy (27)
Fukushima Reactor Accident (6)
Ganjgal (1)
Garmsir (1)
general (15)
General Amos (1)
General James Mattis (1)
General McChrystal (44)
General McKiernan (6)
General Rodriguez (3)
General Suleimani (9)
Georgia (19)
GITMO (2)
Google (1)
Gulbuddin Hekmatyar (1)
Gun Control (1,380)
Guns (1,945)
Guns In National Parks (3)
Haditha Roundup (10)
Haiti (2)
HAMAS (7)
Haqqani Network (9)
Hate Mail (8)
Hekmatyar (1)
Heroism (4)
Hezbollah (12)
High Capacity Magazines (16)
High Value Targets (9)
Homecoming (1)
Homeland Security (1)
Horses (1)
Humor (37)
ICOS (1)
IEDs (7)
Immigration (94)
India (10)
Infantry (4)
Information Warfare (2)
Infrastructure (2)
Intelligence (23)
Intelligence Bulletin (6)
Iran (170)
Iraq (379)
Iraq SOFA (23)
Islamic Facism (64)
Islamists (95)
Israel (18)
Jaish al Mahdi (21)
Jalalabad (1)
Japan (2)
Jihadists (80)
John Nagl (5)
Joint Intelligence Centers (1)
JRTN (1)
Kabul (1)
Kajaki Dam (1)
Kamdesh (9)
Kandahar (12)
Karachi (7)
Kashmir (2)
Khost Province (1)
Khyber (11)
Knife Blogging (4)
Korea (4)
Korengal Valley (3)
Kunar Province (20)
Kurdistan (3)
Language in COIN (5)
Language in Statecraft (1)
Language Interpreters (2)
Lashkar-e-Taiba (2)
Law Enforcement (4)
Lawfare (7)
Leadership (6)
Lebanon (6)
Leon Panetta (2)
Let Them Fight (2)
Libya (14)
Lines of Effort (3)
Littoral Combat (8)
Logistics (50)
Long Guns (1)
Lt. Col. Allen West (2)
Marine Corps (271)
Marines in Bakwa (1)
Marines in Helmand (67)
Marjah (4)
MEDEVAC (2)
Media (62)
Medical (112)
Memorial Day (6)
Mexican Cartels (36)
Mexico (52)
Michael Yon (6)
Micromanaging the Military (7)
Middle East (1)
Military Blogging (26)
Military Contractors (4)
Military Equipment (24)
Militia (6)
Mitt Romney (3)
Monetary Policy (1)
Moqtada al Sadr (2)
Mosul (4)
Mountains (25)
MRAPs (1)
Mullah Baradar (1)
Mullah Fazlullah (1)
Mullah Omar (3)
Musa Qala (4)
Music (24)
Muslim Brotherhood (6)
Nation Building (2)
National Internet IDs (1)
National Rifle Association (78)
NATO (15)
Navy (24)
Navy Corpsman (1)
NCOs (3)
News (1)
NGOs (2)
Nicholas Schmidle (2)
Now Zad (19)
NSA (3)
NSA James L. Jones (6)
Nuclear (58)
Nuristan (8)
Obama Administration (221)
Offshore Balancing (1)
Operation Alljah (7)
Operation Khanjar (14)
Ossetia (7)
Pakistan (165)
Paktya Province (1)
Palestine (5)
Patriotism (7)
Patrolling (1)
Pech River Valley (11)
Personal (67)
Petraeus (14)
Pictures (1)
Piracy (13)
Pistol (2)
Pizzagate (21)
Police (549)
Police in COIN (3)
Policy (15)
Politics (915)
Poppy (2)
PPEs (1)
Prisons in Counterinsurgency (12)
Project Gunrunner (20)
PRTs (1)
Qatar (1)
Quadrennial Defense Review (2)
Quds Force (13)
Quetta Shura (1)
RAND (3)
Recommended Reading (14)
Refueling Tanker (1)
Religion (248)
Religion and Insurgency (19)
Reuters (1)
Rick Perry (4)
Rifles (1)
Roads (4)
Rolling Stone (1)
Ron Paul (1)
ROTC (1)
Rules of Engagement (75)
Rumsfeld (1)
Russia (32)
Sabbatical (1)
Sangin (1)
Saqlawiyah (1)
Satellite Patrols (2)
Saudi Arabia (4)
Scenes from Iraq (1)
Second Amendment (442)
Second Amendment Quick Hits (2)
Secretary Gates (9)
Sharia Law (3)
Shura Ittehad-ul-Mujahiden (1)
SIIC (2)
Sirajuddin Haqqani (1)
Small Wars (72)
Snipers (9)
Sniveling Lackeys (2)
Soft Power (4)
Somalia (8)
Sons of Afghanistan (1)
Sons of Iraq (2)
Special Forces (28)
Squad Rushes (1)
State Department (23)
Statistics (1)
Sunni Insurgency (10)
Support to Infantry Ratio (1)
Supreme Court (30)
Survival (58)
SWAT Raids (55)
Syria (38)
Tactical Drills (2)
Tactical Gear (6)
Taliban (168)
Taliban Massing of Forces (4)
Tarmiyah (1)
TBI (1)
Technology (17)
Tehrik-i-Taliban (78)
Terrain in Combat (1)
Terrorism (95)
Thanksgiving (12)
The Anbar Narrative (23)
The Art of War (5)
The Fallen (1)
The Long War (20)
The Surge (3)
The Wounded (13)
Thomas Barnett (1)
Transnational Insurgencies (5)
Tribes (5)
TSA (22)
TSA Ineptitude (13)
TTPs (4)
U.S. Border Patrol (5)
U.S. Border Security (14)
U.S. Sovereignty (17)
UAVs (2)
UBL (4)
Ukraine (3)
Uncategorized (58)
Universal Background Check (3)
Unrestricted Warfare (4)
USS Iwo Jima (2)
USS San Antonio (1)
Uzbekistan (1)
V-22 Osprey (4)
Veterans (3)
Vietnam (1)
War & Warfare (318)
War & Warfare (40)
War Movies (4)
War Reporting (21)
Wardak Province (1)
Warriors (6)
Waziristan (1)
Weapons and Tactics (73)
West Point (1)
Winter Operations (1)
Women in Combat (21)
WTF? (1)
Yemen (1)

November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006

about · archives · contact · register

Copyright © 2006-2021 Captain's Journal. All rights reserved.