Ron Spomer On The 6.5 Grendel

BY Herschel Smith
2 weeks, 6 days ago

Ron Spomer does the 6.5 Grendel.

I’ve done the AR-10 scene and didn’t like it.  An AR-10 is heavy, unwieldy, and stiff recoiling – everything the AR-15 isn’t, negating the very advantages of the AR-15 platform.  I wasn’t all that pleased or impressed and sold what I had.

On the other hand, a 123 grain bullet travelling this fast in an AR-15 size package is very appealing.  Folks like Pat Hines may say “I told you so.”

Also, if you can make it past the two idiots to get to the knowledge of Ryan Muckenhirn, this is a good video on the virtues of the Grendel round, including out of a bolt action rifle.  Posted eight months ago.


Comments

  1. On September 27, 2021 at 8:28 am, Pat H. Bowman said:

    I watched Ron’s video the other night. Just getting into the Grendel and am quite impressed. I worked up a 120 grain Gold Dot load in no time, along with a 120 grain target load. It’s quite accurate and with a can, a joy to shoot.

    Like you, I’m not thrilled with my AR-10 in 308. It’s heavy, and I’m constantly dealing with various malfunctions. And accuracy is only so-so, despite extensive load development. My Grendel and 6mm Creedmoors on the other hand are laser beams.

  2. On September 27, 2021 at 9:29 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:

    @ Herschel

    Re: “I’ve done the AR-10 scene and didn’t like it. An AR-10 is heavy, unwieldy, and stiff recoiling – everything the AR-15 isn’t, negating the very advantages of the AR-15 platform.”

    Many folks mistakenly believe that scaling up from from an AR15 platform to an AR in .308 is easy since they share so many features in common. That would normally be a logical assumption, since they share a common ancestor way back in the 1950s, Eugene Stoner’s first AR10 rifles for Armalite.

    However, today’s firm of Armalite is not the same one as the one back in the 1950s-1960s. Ex-Army Ordnance officer Mark Westrom purchased the rights to the dormant Armalite name in the early 1990s, and now produces firearms under that imprint. Westrom’s firm does make AR10s today, and some regard them highly, but they are not the same rifles as the ones designed by Eugene Stoner, James Sullivan and others more than sixty years ago.

    Westrom and his people beefed up the original svelte 1950s AR10 design, which weighed just over seven pounds w/o the magazine, and made other changes as well, to make the design more-palatable as a military service rifle candidate in the 1990s, but Westrom’s design lost out to Reed Knight’s SR25, and the rest is history. Long story short, a “new” Armalite twenty-inch barrel AR10 similar in appearance to an AR15 or M16A2 weights nearly ten pounds, and is by no means a bargain in terms of weight or heft.

    The picture gets even more complex, because Armalite produced two variants of the AR10 during the Westrom era, the AR10 A-series and the AR10 B-series. The former take stanag SR25 and other industry standard magazines, such as Magpul, but the latter take only proprietary Armalite magazines, which are based upon – but not identical to – M14 magazines. “A” and “B” series rifles have somewhat different internal architecture as well; for those interested, Armalite has a couple of videos up on You Tube concerning these.

    Adding even more complexity and confusion, unlike the AR15 & M16 – which were adopted by the U.S. military and standardized – the AR10 or “AR-308” has never standardized around a defined set of design characteristics. Therefore, multiple manufacturers now make/sell AR-platform rifles chambered in .308, virtually all of which are proprietary in some manner and therefore unique only to that maker.

    DPMS started the ball rolling in the early 2000s, with their widely-popular and award-winning LR-308. Rock River Arms, Windham Weaponry, Smith & Wesson, and a host of other firms followed, including high-end makers such as Patriot Ordnance Factory (POF) and Daniel Defense, as well as BCM.

    Two broad classes of receiver design exist, the DPMS pattern and the Armalite pattern. But apart from that, most manufacturers design into their AR-308s unique features or parts which compel you to buy only their magazine or spare parts. It is not even possible to swap uppers and lowers as AR15 owners routinely do; you can get into tech mismatches there, too.

    Herschel, if you have cause to reconsider your opinion of the platform, POF supposedly offers an AR chambered in .308 which is as light as a carbine in 5.56/.223, yet comfortable to use and light to carry. I do not have personal experience with one from my time in the retail FA industry, other than magazine articles… but thought I’d pass along the info anyway.

    Far as military use of the platform is concerned, Knights Armament has that market cornered. The AR10 never won acceptance as a general-issue infantry rifle, but Reed Knight did manage to sell a whole lot of his company’s rifles to mil.gov as precision weapons, a role in which they have apparently excelled. Ask your son about that one; I bet he knows something about it.

  3. On September 27, 2021 at 9:46 pm, Herschel Smith said:

    @Georgiaboy61,

    I think I just want a somewhat smaller cartridge than .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor, in other words, not as heavy and wieldy and as heavy recoil as the AR-10, but somewhat more than the 5.56.

    6.5 Grendel fits that role nicely.

  4. On September 27, 2021 at 10:41 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:

    Re: “I think I just want a somewhat smaller cartridge than .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor, in other words, not as heavy and wieldy and as heavy recoil as the AR-10, but somewhat more than the 5.56. 6.5 Grendel fits that role nicely.”

    Read you five-by-five, but thought the background would be interesting to you anyway. I agree, by the way, about 6.5 Grendel. It’s an intriguing cartridge design. I’d be a lot more enthusiastic if it was more widespread, though…. might as well be “unobtainium” around where I live.

    For the record, I agree with you that AR10s & AR-308s are a pain, for all of the reasons listed in my previous message. You’ve got to really want to go there for the hassles to be tolerable. Some of the young guys who had ’em in the sandbox like ’em a whole lot, but I am neither young anymore, nor a member of Uncle Sam’s club for boys. Let those young cats haul those heavy suckers around…

  5. On September 29, 2021 at 5:24 pm, john jay said:

    re: ar-15 cartridges

    herschel:

    you should give the 6.8 rem spc a tumble. it is nice and mild mannered to shoot, and i should think quite lethal. and, plenty accurate, and easy to reload.

    now, i am going to commit heresy, and suggest that italy’s wwii infantry rounds would make pretty good ar-15 fodder, the 7.35mm round in particular. they are not long-ish range target rounds, just well conceived infantry rounds out to 350 yards or so. i am pretty sure that i would not want to be shot with one of them.

    john jay

    p.s. has there ever been an “ar-10” sold to the u.s. of a. per contract specs defining what an ar-10 “actually is.” my understanding is that dpms has basically “standardized” the specs to an “ar-10” and that the rest of the industry more or less follows along, … , but does it exist by govt. “definition” of the specs?

  6. On September 30, 2021 at 2:18 pm, Pat Hines said:

    First, let me say thank you, Herschel, for the honorable mention.

    The first AR I put together was in 6.5 Grendel, since it wasn’t yet SAAMI approved and there was some discussion about whether or not Mr. Alexander would submit his cartridge to them for that purpose. He did that, though I don’t remember the year. I took a chance. Alexander Arms was a sole source for ammo at first, not cheap either, then Hornady sort of came to the rescue at about $20.00 a box give or take. I picked some cases of that, then the real low cost Russian steel cased stuff came on the market at less than $6.00 a box, I jumped a number of cases of that. You still have to do spot checks on ammo availability to find bargains, then quickly make your move.

    I did all sorts of research on the round, and the 6.8 Remington too, but never found any reason to go with the 6.8R. Y’all may know that anything in either 6.8 or .270 is a sort of bastard 7mm (.284), right? I don’t know what Winchester was thinking when they created the .270W. To this day, the variety of bullets in 7mm/284 is much larger than .70.

    Okay, back to the 6.5G. My rifle has a 16 inch stainless barrel, not the optimum length, but not too bad for velocity loss, Alexander preferred barrels of at least 24 inches, fine for the target shooting fraternity, not as handy tactically.

    Because the ballistics are similar enough to the 7.62/308, you can use a Trijicon ACOG TA11H-308G, note this has a green illuminated portion of the reticle center. During my extensive research I found that the US army had researched reticle illumination colors and determined green to be most visible, then red, with amber coming in a distant third. The green was well above red, so I went with it. https://media.fotki.com/2vn8yk8qxQKds.png

    Last, though not least, I like the 6.5G a lot, but still recommend everyone have a 5.56 weapon too.

    https://youtu.be/FaradX7Pccs

  7. On September 30, 2021 at 2:24 pm, Pat Hines said:

    Here’s the photo album I put together some 11+ years ago on 6.5G ballistics and stuff.

    https://public.fotki.com/fastpat/self_defense/ar-rifles-1/grendel-ballistics/

  8. On September 30, 2021 at 4:02 pm, Herschel Smith said:

    @Pat,

    Can’t get to it. Asks for password.

    “Last, though not least, I like the 6.5G a lot, but still recommend everyone have a 5.56 weapon too.”

    But of course. It’s America’s gun.

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Leave a comment


You are currently reading "Ron Spomer On The 6.5 Grendel", entry #28247 on The Captain's Journal.

This article is filed under the category(s) Ammunition and was published September 26th, 2021 by Herschel Smith.

If you're interested in what else the The Captain's Journal has to say, you might try thumbing through the archives and visiting the main index, or; perhaps you would like to learn more about TCJ.

26th MEU (10)
Abu Muqawama (12)
ACOG (2)
ACOGs (1)
Afghan National Army (36)
Afghan National Police (17)
Afghanistan (704)
Afghanistan SOFA (4)
Agriculture in COIN (3)
AGW (1)
Air Force (36)
Air Power (9)
al Qaeda (83)
Ali al-Sistani (1)
America (21)
Ammunition (164)
Animals (113)
Ansar al Sunna (15)
Anthropology (3)
Antonin Scalia (1)
AR-15s (297)
Arghandab River Valley (1)
Arlington Cemetery (2)
Army (79)
Assassinations (2)
Assault Weapon Ban (27)
Australian Army (7)
Azerbaijan (4)
Backpacking (2)
Badr Organization (8)
Baitullah Mehsud (21)
Basra (17)
BATFE (120)
Battle of Bari Alai (2)
Battle of Wanat (18)
Battle Space Weight (3)
Bin Laden (7)
Blogroll (3)
Blogs (23)
Body Armor (21)
Books (3)
Border War (14)
Brady Campaign (1)
Britain (38)
British Army (35)
Camping (4)
Canada (3)
Castle Doctrine (1)
Caucasus (6)
CENTCOM (7)
Center For a New American Security (8)
Charity (3)
China (15)
Christmas (12)
CIA (29)
Civilian National Security Force (3)
Col. Gian Gentile (9)
Combat Outposts (3)
Combat Video (2)
Concerned Citizens (6)
Constabulary Actions (3)
Coolness Factor (3)
COP Keating (4)
Corruption in COIN (4)
Council on Foreign Relations (1)
Counterinsurgency (217)
DADT (2)
David Rohde (1)
Defense Contractors (2)
Department of Defense (189)
Department of Homeland Security (26)
Disaster Preparedness (4)
Distributed Operations (5)
Dogs (12)
Donald Trump (26)
Drone Campaign (3)
EFV (3)
Egypt (12)
El Salvador (1)
Embassy Security (1)
Enemy Spotters (1)
Expeditionary Warfare (17)
F-22 (2)
F-35 (1)
Fallujah (17)
Far East (3)
Fathers and Sons (2)
Favorite (1)
Fazlullah (3)
FBI (32)
Featured (186)
Federal Firearms Laws (18)
Financing the Taliban (2)
Firearms (1,411)
Football (1)
Force Projection (35)
Force Protection (4)
Force Transformation (1)
Foreign Policy (27)
Fukushima Reactor Accident (6)
Ganjgal (1)
Garmsir (1)
general (15)
General Amos (1)
General James Mattis (1)
General McChrystal (44)
General McKiernan (6)
General Rodriguez (3)
General Suleimani (9)
Georgia (19)
GITMO (2)
Google (1)
Gulbuddin Hekmatyar (1)
Gun Control (1,379)
Guns (1,913)
Guns In National Parks (3)
Haditha Roundup (10)
Haiti (2)
HAMAS (7)
Haqqani Network (9)
Hate Mail (8)
Hekmatyar (1)
Heroism (4)
Hezbollah (12)
High Capacity Magazines (16)
High Value Targets (9)
Homecoming (1)
Homeland Security (1)
Horses (1)
Humor (37)
ICOS (1)
IEDs (7)
Immigration (94)
India (10)
Infantry (4)
Information Warfare (2)
Infrastructure (2)
Intelligence (23)
Intelligence Bulletin (6)
Iran (170)
Iraq (379)
Iraq SOFA (23)
Islamic Facism (64)
Islamists (95)
Israel (18)
Jaish al Mahdi (21)
Jalalabad (1)
Japan (2)
Jihadists (80)
John Nagl (5)
Joint Intelligence Centers (1)
JRTN (1)
Kabul (1)
Kajaki Dam (1)
Kamdesh (9)
Kandahar (12)
Karachi (7)
Kashmir (2)
Khost Province (1)
Khyber (11)
Knife Blogging (4)
Korea (4)
Korengal Valley (3)
Kunar Province (20)
Kurdistan (3)
Language in COIN (5)
Language in Statecraft (1)
Language Interpreters (2)
Lashkar-e-Taiba (2)
Law Enforcement (4)
Lawfare (7)
Leadership (6)
Lebanon (6)
Leon Panetta (2)
Let Them Fight (2)
Libya (14)
Lines of Effort (3)
Littoral Combat (8)
Logistics (50)
Long Guns (1)
Lt. Col. Allen West (2)
Marine Corps (271)
Marines in Bakwa (1)
Marines in Helmand (67)
Marjah (4)
MEDEVAC (2)
Media (62)
Medical (84)
Memorial Day (6)
Mexican Cartels (36)
Mexico (52)
Michael Yon (6)
Micromanaging the Military (7)
Middle East (1)
Military Blogging (26)
Military Contractors (4)
Military Equipment (24)
Militia (5)
Mitt Romney (3)
Monetary Policy (1)
Moqtada al Sadr (2)
Mosul (4)
Mountains (25)
MRAPs (1)
Mullah Baradar (1)
Mullah Fazlullah (1)
Mullah Omar (3)
Musa Qala (4)
Music (23)
Muslim Brotherhood (6)
Nation Building (2)
National Internet IDs (1)
National Rifle Association (75)
NATO (15)
Navy (24)
Navy Corpsman (1)
NCOs (3)
News (1)
NGOs (2)
Nicholas Schmidle (2)
Now Zad (19)
NSA (3)
NSA James L. Jones (6)
Nuclear (58)
Nuristan (8)
Obama Administration (221)
Offshore Balancing (1)
Operation Alljah (7)
Operation Khanjar (14)
Ossetia (7)
Pakistan (165)
Paktya Province (1)
Palestine (5)
Patriotism (7)
Patrolling (1)
Pech River Valley (11)
Personal (66)
Petraeus (14)
Pictures (1)
Piracy (13)
Pistol (2)
Pizzagate (21)
Police (545)
Police in COIN (3)
Policy (15)
Politics (893)
Poppy (2)
PPEs (1)
Prisons in Counterinsurgency (12)
Project Gunrunner (20)
PRTs (1)
Qatar (1)
Quadrennial Defense Review (2)
Quds Force (13)
Quetta Shura (1)
RAND (3)
Recommended Reading (14)
Refueling Tanker (1)
Religion (243)
Religion and Insurgency (19)
Reuters (1)
Rick Perry (4)
Rifles (1)
Roads (4)
Rolling Stone (1)
Ron Paul (1)
ROTC (1)
Rules of Engagement (75)
Rumsfeld (1)
Russia (32)
Sabbatical (1)
Sangin (1)
Saqlawiyah (1)
Satellite Patrols (2)
Saudi Arabia (4)
Scenes from Iraq (1)
Second Amendment (435)
Second Amendment Quick Hits (2)
Secretary Gates (9)
Sharia Law (3)
Shura Ittehad-ul-Mujahiden (1)
SIIC (2)
Sirajuddin Haqqani (1)
Small Wars (72)
Snipers (9)
Sniveling Lackeys (2)
Soft Power (4)
Somalia (8)
Sons of Afghanistan (1)
Sons of Iraq (2)
Special Forces (28)
Squad Rushes (1)
State Department (23)
Statistics (1)
Sunni Insurgency (10)
Support to Infantry Ratio (1)
Supreme Court (30)
Survival (56)
SWAT Raids (55)
Syria (38)
Tactical Drills (2)
Tactical Gear (6)
Taliban (168)
Taliban Massing of Forces (4)
Tarmiyah (1)
TBI (1)
Technology (17)
Tehrik-i-Taliban (78)
Terrain in Combat (1)
Terrorism (95)
Thanksgiving (10)
The Anbar Narrative (23)
The Art of War (5)
The Fallen (1)
The Long War (20)
The Surge (3)
The Wounded (13)
Thomas Barnett (1)
Transnational Insurgencies (5)
Tribes (5)
TSA (22)
TSA Ineptitude (13)
TTPs (4)
U.S. Border Patrol (5)
U.S. Border Security (14)
U.S. Sovereignty (17)
UAVs (2)
UBL (4)
Ukraine (3)
Uncategorized (58)
Universal Background Check (3)
Unrestricted Warfare (4)
USS Iwo Jima (2)
USS San Antonio (1)
Uzbekistan (1)
V-22 Osprey (4)
Veterans (3)
Vietnam (1)
War & Warfare (317)
War & Warfare (40)
War Movies (4)
War Reporting (21)
Wardak Province (1)
Warriors (6)
Waziristan (1)
Weapons and Tactics (73)
West Point (1)
Winter Operations (1)
Women in Combat (21)
WTF? (1)
Yemen (1)

October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006

about · archives · contact · register

Copyright © 2006-2021 Captain's Journal. All rights reserved.