Trump: “Take The Guns First, Go Through Due Process Second”
BY Herschel Smith
6 years, 1 month ago
“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida … to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.
“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.
No, you didn’t go to sleep and imagine Trump being elected, only to wake and find out that you’re still in the Obama era. Obama didn’t say that. Trump did.
Wasn’t this the guy that was going to save the second amendment and root out the deep state, drain the swamp and make America great again? Or was he just a temporary stop on the way to dystopia, a delay for getting ready for what we all know is coming?
See, the whole idea behind “due process” is that it happens first, not second. It’s not due process if it happens out of sequence. But he didn’t think very deeply about this before he said it. It may be what he believes and feels, but it sounds so stupid that if he thought about it, he wouldn’t have actually said it.
And if he was more of a thinking man, he might have pondered the fact that no progressive is going to vote for him in the next election for being a gun controller, but he might just have alienated the very base that put him in office to begin with. But remember his words during the debates: “Everything is negotiable.” That apparently includes your God-given rights.
You don’t have enough ammunition yet. Neither do I.
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On March 1, 2018 at 12:46 am, Michael said:
President Trump is a dangerous buffoon. It’s just that simple.
He has no moral compass. Nor does he abide any principles. What he believes in changes by the minute.
I wouldn’t count on him to do anything favorable to our rights.
On March 1, 2018 at 7:16 am, ragman said:
These are the good old days. At best we have until the gimmiecrats take over the House in ‘19. When that happens trump will be impeached and his presidency is finished. I will order a few Glock 19 80% lowers ASAP. They’re not museum pieces but they work. Also, ammo is available and relatively inexpensive. That’s today but who’s to say what next week will bring. These purchases were not my priority before yesterday but they are now.
On March 1, 2018 at 7:59 am, H said:
ragman: Trump might well get impeached by a Democratic House, but like Clinton he’ll still be in office until and unless the Senate votes to convict him. It’s mathematically impossible for the Democrats to get a super-majority there unless a bunch of Senators not up for reelection this year retire, but a lot of them want Trump gone if they think that won’t cause them to lose reelection in due course. If Trump betrays us on gun control and immigration by then, that wouldn’t be such a big risk.
Trump is still doing a good job of not being Hillary, but there’s no exaggerating how disastrous this is, plus his support of raising the age for purchasing long guns, which is a direct attack on the US gun culture.
On March 1, 2018 at 8:21 am, ragman said:
H: good points but I didn’t say that trump would be removed, just that he would be impeached effectively ending his presidency. I should have been more clear on that point. Raising the age and allowing “someone “ to decide who is unfit to own a gun lets the camel of registration and confiscation get his nose a bit further under the tent. Not good!
On March 1, 2018 at 8:27 am, Heywood said:
Well, let’s see…immigration and guns. Glad this man has iron clad principles!
On March 1, 2018 at 8:43 am, Fred said:
Trump is a ‘do something’ Fudd. He will be a one term failure.
On March 1, 2018 at 8:46 am, Frank Clarke said:
Voting for the lesser of two evils means affirmatively voting for evil. What we’re seeing with Trump is only quantitatively — not qualitatively — different than what we would have seen with the Hildabeast. And let’s face it: the only reason Trump is President is that Hillary was viewed as “worse than Trump”. That’s hardly what anyone would call “a recommendation”.
In short, you voted for this. If you don’t like what you got, maybe you should vote some other way next time. If there is a next time.
Perhaps that rough beast slouching toward Jerusalem is a nice, cleansing civil (sic) war.
Herschel is right: we don’t have enough ammunition.
On March 1, 2018 at 9:09 am, ragman said:
Frank: did you vote for the Clinton crime syndicate? Yup, I voted for trump and I thank God every day that I don’t have to say “President Hillary Clinton “.
On March 1, 2018 at 9:54 am, Scott in Phx said:
Well, I didn’t expect Trump to keep any of his campaign promises so I’m surprised it took him this long to make noises about throwing us under the buss.
Still, he’s not Hillary and with Hillary we’d have gotten a Garland, not a Gorsuch.
So, we’re still ahead of the game.
Remember, the Congress passes the bills, they are the ones that need to know their jobs depend on us.
This can pass too if they remember that.
And FixNICS with NCCR would be a net win for us.
On March 1, 2018 at 10:27 am, revjen45 said:
It hasn’t happened yet. Just because Trump said so doesn’t make it real. There’s a lot of territory between him saying that and Congress passing it.
And yeah, the best you can say is that he’s not the Hildabeast, but that’s a lot. He sucks, but she is the vacuum of intergalactic space.
On March 1, 2018 at 10:47 am, Jim Scrummy said:
Relax. This is an election year. Do you seriously think any Congresscritter on the right is going to sign up for a suicide mission, particularly in the House? Look what happened when Trump had his “discussions” on immigration/DACA. Hell, the ‘critters couldn’t even agree on any immigration/DACA bills in the senate, all four failed. Could 60 votes happen in the Senate? Definite maybe at 50% chance at best. Enough votes in the House to pass something…ahhhh nope.
On March 1, 2018 at 10:55 am, Herschel Smith said:
@Jim,
Maybe. Then again, maybe you’re having your Pollyanna moment of the day.
On March 1, 2018 at 11:16 am, Jim Scrummy said:
Nope, not a pollyanna at all. Just a realist, plus having 4 years experience as an evil corporate lobbyist in DC, gives me a tiny bit of insight on how the critters think and operate. Most critters are midwits, and are only thinking about the funding for their next election (House particularly). The staffers do all the work on the committees and critters offices, something to remember. Something may occur with “bumpstocks” on the regulatory side, but I would be surprised if anything happened legislatively this year. An AWB? Nope. Even the stuff talked about yesterday, very little chance, this year. That’s why it’s important to hold your congresscritter’s feet to the fire if they want to do something stupid. Most like their do-nothing gigs, and don’t want to interrupt the gravy train. My 2 pennies.
On March 1, 2018 at 11:25 am, Fred said:
Scott in Phx, I’m so glad that you’re willing to negotiate away my privacy so we can have federal gun control of the wearing arms across state lines for the purposes of self defense. So, you want more privacy invasion so we can federal gun control of handguns? You’re an idiot. You and the NRA deserve each other.
On March 1, 2018 at 11:46 am, Ben said:
There is a factual error in this post. Due process does not REQUIRE a hearing before action is taken. It requires notice and an opportunity to be heard, but that can occur after protective action is taken in appropriate circumstances. For example, domestic protective orders can be granted without prior notice and a contested hearing; however, a contested hearing is typically required within a relatively short period of time thereafter. In the context of firearms, a law that permitted temporary confiscation before the defendant has an opportunity to contest the allegations against him is likely to pass constitutional muster, provided (1) that a judge signs off on a temporary order after some showing (possibly with a higher standard of proof than usually required in civil court) by the prosecutor or plaintiff that the defendant is likely to be a threat to himself or others, (2) that the defendant has an opportunity to contest the allegations against him within a relatively short time and (3) that the confiscation order have a short, defined duration.
On March 1, 2018 at 11:52 am, Martin Cohn said:
He just turned into a one term umpa lumpa POTUS
On March 1, 2018 at 12:06 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Ben,
That’s an awesome comment. Thanks for making it. I do not accept the correction.
But you’ve managed to point out that the current “justice” system and schools of law routinely violate due process and see the founder’s protections differently than they should. I do not accept that armament confiscation can precede a court hearing. I also do not accept that a court hearing is a justifiable prelude to armament confiscation. I also do not accept that the American “justice” system administers justice.
Remember, the founders went to war with King George over, at least initially, armament confiscations. I think we all know how they saw what they said were their rights, regardless of what’s being taught at Harvard, Yale and Emory.
On March 1, 2018 at 12:33 pm, Towser said:
Herschel, for what it’s worth, I agree with you 100% on your last comment. For some reason the phrase “innocent until proven guilty” comes to mind.
About the King’s, er the president’s “Take the guns first, go through due process second,” statement, I contend maybe the fool ought to, for once, think before he spouts. Who decides whether someone is mentally fit to possess armaments? Would this include the same “mental health professionals” who publicly declared Trump unfit for office? I can see plenty of scenarios where said “professionals” base their opinion on a patients “mental health” solely on their own personal opinions concerning firearms. “Oh, you believe you have a ‘right’ to own a gun? You are unfit!”
This is not a slippery slope, it is an unconscionable nightmare.
On March 1, 2018 at 12:52 pm, Fred said:
I’m a government psychiatrist and I’m here to help.
On March 1, 2018 at 1:02 pm, Ray said:
What is the point in all this? Unless you are willing to use those AR-15’s you might just as well turn them in. If you wait to make some grand gesture in the door of your home you might become a “hero”. That will look good on your grave, and do little else. The feds will send SWAT. You know the black clad death squad, to make you platy “Simon Says” then shoot you anyway. IMO. Voting has failed. It is a one party system with rigged elections. The permanent government couldn’t care less what we think. Our natural rights no longer have any meaning. No one in government AT ANY LEVEL is doing anything to uphold the rule of law. Your natural rights are so eroded that they barely have any meaning left anyway. Every moment of our lives is regulated and controlled by a ruthless MAFIA , that is more than willing to murder if you fail to pretend that you are “free”. So I’ll ask again. What is the point to all this?
On March 1, 2018 at 1:06 pm, Longbow said:
Yep. He just fucked himself for keeps. He’ll be a one term loser, more forgettable that Jimmy Carter, and I never thought I would say such a thing.
On March 1, 2018 at 1:14 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Towser,
Yea, let’s exempt firearms from this discussion. What’s the department of pre-crime going to do? Consult their witch doctor psychiatrists to see who might use those bags of fertilizer to blow things up and then confiscate those bags?
In whose universe is this acceptable? Not the one envisioned by the founders. It sounds like a bad movie plot doesn’t it?
On March 1, 2018 at 1:17 pm, H said:
Ray, I don’t know about you, but my introduction to guns was my father taking me out hunting starting when I was 3.
On March 1, 2018 at 1:25 pm, moe mensale said:
I have to agree with @Jim. Trump is being Trump. He’s a consummate chess player and he’s setting people up to expose their hypocrisy. He’s been doing it since June 16, 2015. Why would he change his strategy now? I’m not falling for all the doom and gloom.
On March 1, 2018 at 1:45 pm, Gryphon said:
I really think Trump is just playing Rope-a-Dope here, saying He supports ANY ‘gun control’ measure at all… Now, watch the (((Left))) like Schumer and Pelosi
jump on the Bandwagon and add every ‘Ban Measure’ they have been talking about for Years. (((Their))) radical crap hasn’t passed for Years, even with full control of the Congress and Presidency.
Now, if they tie that crap to anything Trump proposes, the whole Mess will Sink in the Congress like a Burlap Sack full of Kittens with a Brick in it. Then Trump can stand up and say “Hey, I tried to get something Done…”
Anyway, Buy More Ammo.
On March 1, 2018 at 1:45 pm, Duke_Digger said:
Even a consummate chess player can make an unwise move and end up being checkmated.
All this talk is just more “slouching toward CW2”.
On March 1, 2018 at 2:06 pm, Herschel Smith said:
So Trump didn’t really sign a memo to the DoJ telling them to tell the ATF to ban bump stocks? He lied about that? So Trump doesn’t really support a mental health test for gun ownership? He lied about that? In NC where I live, there is one right now. In order to get a CHP, you have to turn over your medical records to the CLEO who gets to check with all of the local hospitals in the area on admissions and to what department and diagnosis.
On March 1, 2018 at 3:10 pm, kevinH said:
What do you expect when you have a man with no moral compass or convictions of his own.
His position is usually that of whomever he spoke to last.
He is a placeholder, a better than the alternative but that is all.
On March 1, 2018 at 3:29 pm, Herschel Smith said:
This is what I expected. The comments range from “He’s a loser,” to “he’s a genius playing 3D chess.”
I think he is a Northern man who doesn’t think like the dirt people, and who wants a stable government doing the same sorts of things it always has, while not pushing the dirt people too far and protecting his own flank more than anything else. Much better than the alternative, but still a big-government Yankee who doesn’t understand me.
On March 1, 2018 at 4:04 pm, Fred S. said:
Guns don’t kill people, big Pharma kills people!
On March 1, 2018 at 4:15 pm, GEORGE said:
Rubio has or will shortly introduce 6 bills. One of them will concern protective orders from the court. So someone says something negative about you. Little to no verification of the complaint will take place. The police will petition the court to remove your weapons because ” due process comes later”. A judge will rubber stamp the police petition because that is what nearly all courts do today, see the FISA court. You will be visited by the SWAT team and if you survive that, you will have lost your guns forever. Most will never have the resources to fight the court order. There will be no true “due process.”
Obama must be laughing his ass off.
On March 1, 2018 at 4:16 pm, Fred S. said:
100% correct George
On March 1, 2018 at 4:21 pm, Unclezip said:
I think he said it just to get a rise from the morons in the room. They drooled and shook their heads in agreement, and he’s hoping they will attempt to implement it just do they’ll get shot down in flames. Why does everyone assume whatever he says that does not fit their agenda is just stupid? He’s far from being stupid, and he’s a master manipulator and negotiator. Sit back and enjoy the ride, without the automatic liberal-style histrionics.
On March 1, 2018 at 4:31 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Unclezip,
I repeat:
“So Trump didn’t really sign a memo to the DoJ telling them to tell the ATF to ban bump stocks? He lied about that? So Trump doesn’t really support a mental health test for gun ownership? He lied about that?”
On March 1, 2018 at 5:45 pm, Pat Hines said:
Trumpenthal is what he is. Never forget that his entire fortune is held by (((those))) people’s banking system. If you think he’s free to do what ever he wants to do, think again. His change to support the Zionist state is a poignant example of a required change.
Trumpenthal is no friend of opponents of Gun Confiscation Lobby, too bad.
On March 1, 2018 at 7:33 pm, MN Steel said:
Those who partook in the last selection had two choices:
A psychopathic liar who hailed from anti-gun New York steeped in anti-gun rhetoric that would have tried banning weapons to dirt people while surrounded by bodyguards, or a narcissistic liar who hails from anti-gun New York steeped in backroom deals and weathervane politics surrounded by bodyguards and the ultra-rare Pokemon card of CWP provided only to the best-connected apparatchiks in the city.
The first was de-selected due to all the chatter about an imminent shooting gallery, the second selected to calm the sheep and get more crazy-ass citiots to be foot-soldiers against the dirt people.
Hope you’ve used that “bought time” well.
On March 1, 2018 at 8:59 pm, Ned2 said:
ONE more gun regulation during this man’s presidency and I will not vote for him in 2020.
We’ve been having this debate for 50 years.
I’m tired of it. Enough. I’m done.
On March 1, 2018 at 10:51 pm, Tony said:
I don’t Tweet, but if I did . . . #AFOSAACT . . . As full of shit as a Christmas Turkey
On March 2, 2018 at 4:07 pm, Kenneth said:
Settle down gentlemen. Nothing has happened.
On March 2, 2018 at 4:36 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Kenneth,
I repeat my question to you that I did above to others: “So Trump didn’t really sign a memo to the DoJ telling them to tell the ATF to ban bump stocks? He lied about that? So Trump doesn’t really support a mental health test for gun ownership? He lied about that?” And I would add, so he doesn’t really support violation of due process? He lied about that? Is he truthful or a liar? And why should we have to ask this about the president?
On March 2, 2018 at 4:54 pm, Kenneth said:
I guess I’m more inclined to cut him some slack when dealing with a hostile press, Democrats, and members of his own party. Especially when nothing has actually happn ed yet. Nothing wrong with holding him to account if he does something stupid, Trumpnis just as fallible as anyone. He does tend to learn from his mistakes though, and messing with guns or immigration is a YUGE mistake. All I’m saying is just calm down, take a breath and wait and see what happens.
On March 2, 2018 at 5:24 pm, Herschel Smith said:
So the way to deal with hostile media is to cave to their demands, or to lie about your views? Since when has Trump taken this approach? And which one is it? Buckle or lie?
On March 2, 2018 at 5:48 pm, Heywood said:
I can always tell when Trump is part of the story by looking at the number of comments…I don’t even have to read the title!
On March 2, 2018 at 6:07 pm, Kenneth said:
I’m just saying, have a little patience. I could be wrong, in which case I’ll be storming the castle right alongside you, but I’m not willing to light the torches and break out the pitchforks just yet.
On March 3, 2018 at 9:39 am, Scott said:
Fred, I would trade FixNics and a Congressional decision to make bump-stocks an NFA item in return for NCCR.
NCCR will kill the restrictive states gun control laws by making it possible to carry ANY handgun across state lines.
And if we don’t kill the restrictive states horrible laws we’ll continue to see the country devolve into 2 nations, one where the 2A exists, like AZ, and one where it doesn’t like NJ, etc.
Long term that is not good, for the country, or for us.
I’d like to avoid a Civil War if I could.
On March 3, 2018 at 2:03 pm, Fred said:
So your plan is to force commies to be free? Again, bad plan! Commies are commies.
On March 3, 2018 at 3:51 pm, moe mensale said:
@Herschel,
“So Trump didn’t really sign a memo to the DoJ telling them to tell the ATF to ban bump stocks? He lied about that?”
Trump can sign all the memos he wants. That doesn’t make law. The ATF can ban bump stocks – in violation of Congress’ responsibility to make law and define terms. Just like they tried to ban M855 ammo as “armor piercing.”
“So Trump doesn’t really support a mental health test for gun ownership? He lied about that?”
Trump may truly support mental health screening for gun ownership. So what? He may also support nuking N. Korea back to the stone age. So what? He didn’t sign any EOs or edicts stating such. And even if he did they can be challenged.
“In NC where I live, there is one right now. In order to get a CHP, you have to turn over your medical records to the CLEO who gets to check with all of the local hospitals in the area on admissions and to what department and diagnosis.”
Well, that’s certainly not Trump’s fault, now is it? I’m not familiar with the particulars of this but maybe the good people of NC were sold some swamp land or just rolled over when it happened. Why isn’t it being challenged today in court?
There’s too much wailing and gnashing of teeth going on.
On March 3, 2018 at 3:56 pm, moe mensale said:
“I would trade FixNics and a Congressional decision to make bump-stocks an NFA item in return for NCCR.”
@Scott,
Why? Why are we always willing to compromise our rights away when the other side compromises nothing? Reagan tried to compromise with the opposition and even his own party on taxes and immigration. He blinked and lost on both issues. Compromise isn’t when the other side has no real intention of following through.
On March 3, 2018 at 6:52 pm, Scott said:
If you can get NCCR without giving something then do it.
As it is you’re probably not going to get it at all, compromise or no.
So you’ll continue to see the restrictive gun states wipe out what is left of the good gun culture instead of trying to rescue them in NJ and CA?
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
On March 3, 2018 at 7:22 pm, Herschel Smith said:
@Moe,
It certainly does matter when he’s the chief executive and can tell the DoJ/ATF what to do, and in this case, it’s a ban on bump stocks. It will happen, and if he wants something else to happen, it’ll happen too. That’s the way it works, and don’t look to the black robed tyrants to undo it.
As for what Trump supports, it certainly does matter since he has the power of veto, promised to support gun rights during the campaign, and the Senate is filled with gargoyles, demons and pit vipers.
Lastly, don’t argue that such a thing as mental health checks can’t happen. The point of my point is that it’s currently happening in NC.
I don’t support Trump, any more than I support any other politician. I support my rights. To the degree that Trump supports those same rights, I support what he does. To the degree he doesn’t, he can suck it.
On March 3, 2018 at 9:28 pm, Fred said:
The people of these places including NJ and CA have made it abundantly clear that they don’t want my kind. I heard them, and respect their decision. If they wanted to be rescued they would do it themselves. You can’t force people to be free.
We’re going to war, Scott. Your best plan would be to get ready.
On March 4, 2018 at 12:06 am, Scott said:
Fred,
I would be happier if I had allies that wanted to avoid war if possible.
Seems you are determined to have it.
But I don’t need your advice.
On March 4, 2018 at 12:55 pm, H said:
> and the Senate is filled with gargoyles, demons and pit vipers.
I have come across many demons and maybe a gargoyle or two in fiction who would take great offense at such a comparison.
More seriously, I’m pretty sure Senate Majority Leader McConnell, who’s first order to Team Trump was that he didn’t want to hear anything more about draining the swamp, doesn’t want a blowout success in 2018. If he had a super-majority in the Senate able to get past the sacred filibuster, assuming the House stays Republican, he and the rest of the GOPe would be out of excuses.
On March 4, 2018 at 3:10 pm, Fred said:
Scott,
I don’t want war. I want nothing more than to be left at liberty to live and go in a peaceable manner. Here’s the part you need to understand; the left will NOT ALLOW THAT. The right always does this. You ascribe your sense truth seeking, of intelligent investigation of facts to the left. You falsely think that the left has its world view in the context of right and wrong and that the left can be convinced to see the light. You fundamentally misunderstand your enemy and the spreading of this fundamental misunderstanding endangers our nation.
The desired end is concentration camps, 70 million dead, and a state monopoly on power. The left are NOT like you. They don’t simply want to have their world view and to be left alone. The controllers and bosses want you dead. You can’t change their mind because it’s not about right and wrong…are you ready?…it’s about power and money. Your life is inconsequential. Period.
The left wants you dead. Right in down, read it daily.
Don’t believe me, go to the nearest university with a sign that says “Guns Save Lives” or “Abortion is Murder” and see what they do to you. Definitely don’t take advise from me or any other idiot you read on the interwebz. Test the left and discover for yourself what it is that you must then do. And then, prepare for war. You may not want it, and you may not even be interested in it, but war is definitely interested you!
On March 4, 2018 at 4:32 pm, moe mensale said:
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
@Scott,
No, just tired of constantly going through the mechanics of “compromise” when we all know damn well that the other side will eventually find a way to get back what they supposedly gave up. They never give up anything in the long run and we’re so naive we keep playing the same game expecting a different outcome. Somebody defined that as insanity.
On March 4, 2018 at 4:35 pm, moe mensale said:
@Herschel,
In the end, it matters not what Trump or anybody says or does, it’s what laws actually get passed.