The Admixture Of Military And Law Enforcement

BY Herschel Smith
9 years, 12 months ago

My son Daniel did a combat tour of Fallujah in 2007, but his other deployment with the Marine Corps was a MEU to the Gulf of Aden and Persian Gulf (which both he and I think is a horrible way to throw away money if we’re never going to use the Marine Corps for anything on these MEUs except for humanitarian missions – but that’s another topic).

As the pre-deployment workup for this MEU, the Battalion underwent extensive training in evidence collection protocol and procedures.  At the time I dismissed this as an aberration and thought no more of it.  Then the Washington Post recently had this article, and it made me think again.

When U.S. Special Operations forces raided several houses in the Iraqi city of Ramadi in March 2006, two Army Rangers were killed when gunfire erupted on the ground floor of one home. A third member of the team was knocked unconscious and shredded by ball bearings when a teenage insurgent detonated a suicide vest.

In a review of the nighttime strike for a relative of one of the dead Rangers, military officials sketched out the sequence of events using small dots to chart the soldiers’ movements. Who, the relative asked, was this man — the one represented by a blue dot and nearly killed by the suicide bomber?

After some hesi­ta­tion, the military briefers answered with three letters: FBI.

The FBI’s transformation from a crime-fighting agency to a counterterrorism organization in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks has been well documented. Less widely known has been the bureau’s role in secret operations against al-Qaeda and its affiliates in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other locations around the world.

With the war in Afghanistan ending, FBI officials have become more willing to discuss a little-known alliance between the bureau and the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) that allowed agents to participate in hundreds of raids in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The relationship benefited both sides. JSOC used the FBI’s expertise in exploiting digital media and other materials to locate insurgents and detect plots, including any against the United States. The bureau’s agents, in turn, could preserve evidence and maintain a chain of custody should any suspect be transferred to the United States for trial.

[ … ]

… FBI agents were regularly involved in shootings — sometimes fighting side by side with the military to hold off insurgent assaults.

“It wasn’t weekly but it wouldn’t be uncommon to see one a month,” he said. “It’s amazing that never happened, that we never lost anybody.”

Others considered it a natural evolution for the FBI — and one consistent with its mission.

[ … ]

In 2005, all of the HRT members in Iraq began to work under JSOC. At one point, up to 12 agents were operating in the country, nearly a tenth of the unit’s shooters.

It’s been routine to watch every little Podunk Hollow across America acquire MRAPs, and we’ve all seen the horrible result of the militarizaton of police in America with SWAT raids.  With former military snipers going to work for federal law enforcement agencies and former military in general finding work with law enforcement across America (which both Daniel and I think is a horrible idea), there may as well never have been a law such as the Posse Comitatus Act.  We have virtual military enforcing law and warring against citizens of America as we speak.

But this level of admixture is a new feature (to those of us who weren’t part of JSOC).  The professional military has welcomed both law enforcement officers and law enforcement protocol and procedures into its ranks.

The implications of this are perhaps enormous.  Quiet Man at WRSA points out that there are formal Army field manuals and doctrine and training documents for site exploitation, and remarks that “virtually everything they do will be ‘”joint” in the agency sense.”  Yes, and in the intra-agency sense as well.  The military is looking more like law enforcement, and law enforcement is looking more like the military.  For those who have been watching, this is likely not accidental, and is an evolution that is at one and the same time both immoral and lawless.  This admixture of law enforcement and military is probably irreversible and this fact will prove to be determinative as a catalyst in coming events.

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  1. On April 21, 2014 at 12:41 am, Steve Bragg said:

    FBI. In the theater of battle. Wow. Just wow.

  2. On April 21, 2014 at 5:19 pm, RDG said:

    Still they couldn’t stop Tsarnaev or this years joker in Boston. It is a cluster bungle of massive expense with hit or miss results by people full of themselves. The Chicoms are laughing their arses off. When they come they will show us how to do battle. America-RIP.

    Tipping my hat to my NSA minder. See you in the camps pal.

  3. On April 22, 2014 at 2:52 am, StukaPilot said:

    there was no cluster bungle in Boston. The Russians told DHS, CIA, FBI all about the Tsarnaevs. They were ALLOWED to do what they did. Set up an opportunity to run a beta test of Martial Law on an urban aggregate. Test was successful.

  4. On April 22, 2014 at 6:09 am, RDG said:

    Very good StukaPilot.

  5. On April 22, 2014 at 9:36 am, Josh said:

    Eh, I’ll take Hanlon’s razor on this one.

  6. On April 21, 2014 at 6:21 pm, Rob Crawford said:

    Except that this has always been the FBI’s role — counter-intelligence, counter-espionage, and thus counter-terrorism.

  7. On April 21, 2014 at 7:49 pm, QuietMan said:


  8. On April 22, 2014 at 4:11 am, stephencarter said:

    The admixture is not intended to fight any foreign enemy, not any longer. Its purpose and target are Americans who defy the government elite. Militarized police forces and a virtual domestic military with policing powers, and government agencies with fully armed enforcement wings are all intended to intimidate, coerce, and ultimately attack Americans. Every police state in history made this same transition. The government is suiting up to kill Americans, plain and simple.

  9. On April 30, 2014 at 5:33 am, Brendan Doran said:

    This is about Power. This is about Lawyers taking the power of conflict away from the military, as they took law enforcement from the Police. The identical path of case law and media hype was followed, our Miranda case was Abu Gharib. Neither Law Enforcement nor the Military are to blame, except perhaps for lacking effective resistance to this madness spurred by lust for power amongst the Power Lawyers. We lack effective resistance in both Law Enforcement and the Military because both lack morally courageous leadership. The police are essentially picked as “followers” instead of “leaders” and sadly the same is true of the Military’s Officer Corps.

    We took our Laws to War and began by losing the War, now we lose our Laws.

  10. On April 30, 2014 at 9:10 am, Herschel Smith said:

    Oh, it’s about power alright. But not about lawyers. You want to make it about someone else to exonerate LEOs, but it won’t work. On judgment day, LEOs won’t be able to say, “well, those were my orders.”

  11. On April 30, 2014 at 10:40 am, Brendan Doran said:

    It’s not about exoneration or what God decides, it’s about winning down here.

    The methods of Lawfare by which the Lawyers marched into micromanaging battles from a safe distance, no closer than the TOC were identical to what was done to Law Enforcement beginning in the 1960s, case law that is case by case basis accompanied by sensational press stories about the evil racist police. The cases with the police were Miranda et al. Our cases were ROE and Abu Gharib, Haditha. Neither police nor soldiers have magical abilities to make violence pretty. The Press however has the completely non-magical power to distort the story and does. The police and especially the military are muted by discipline so for their internal enemies [who serve the very state that marches on the people] it’s a great one sided fight, the other side is disciplined into taking it.

    [Interestingly in both Miranda and Abu Gharib the poor little victims were rapists. Stange coincidence I suppose. ]

    In the military of course the one sided nature of the fight is even more stacked against the soldier/marine as they are subject to both absolute silence and martial law administered by bad PR shy Generals. The police have at least PBA type organizations, unions, Garrity Rule and so on. We did not, nor does the military now. We simply have each other and our Honor. More than can be said of Command.

  12. On April 30, 2014 at 11:25 am, Herschel Smith said:

    You’re off point. You want to talk about military ROE, and the conversation was about American LEOs. I’m all on your side concerning ROE. Iraqis aren’t protected by the rights delineated in the American constitution. We are.
    The next comment should endeavor to remain on point. And it is a VERY bad idea to equate in any form or fashion American LEOs with men who have served in the sand box. I reject immediately and with prejudice any such comparison.

  13. On April 30, 2014 at 3:11 pm, Brendan Doran said:

    Including American LE who served in the sandbox? Repeatedly? Alongside me and many others.

    The point was that the problem is rather deliberately the police [which really means the Courts] are being given wartime and intelligence powers while the actual military and intelligence are being placed under insane constraints. Quite on point as that’s what’s happening. One can’t overlook motive, nor can one talk of politics out of the context of Power.

    Now as you indicated the time of choosing may be coming nigh, so hence one should make wise choices. One shouldn’t make enemies of powerful, dangerous and in truth like minded people. Who happen to be that rare kind of man who risks himself for others in the common defense. And who would be absolutely critical as shall we say the swing or deciding vote. Who can decide to kill the baby in it’s crib…or get out of the way and let Justice be done.

    As I remind people elsewhere the PTB have a huge problem, they can’t trust their organs of force. Of course Hot Headed incompetence could throw our corrupt and degenerate masters the gift of suddenly having committed and powerful allies, even though neither can stand the other.

    It’s understandable with events of terrible portents looming one could get angry, none of this is necessary. On the other hand we did let it happen and get this far..all of us..didn’t we?

    Now I’ve been known to be rather hot headed myself over different matters, but all is so much more productive and calming if considered coldly, like…the Job. That is Duty.

    Or if you like the Russians teach that you cannot have enemies in the military. You have enemies on the street or in the classroom, but not in the military. You must respect them and evaluate them coldly. These were the Communist Russians. The same attitude was taken as well by the Battlefield foes we faced in Korea.

  14. On April 30, 2014 at 3:30 pm, Herschel Smith said:

    You’re in a land of your own creation. It isn’t real. You imagine that I need you to protect me, and the reality is that I need no such thing. I can protect my own family, as you should your own. I am an American citizen, and warrant the protections afforded by the Constitution. You want less constraints, and I don’t care about the military. I want MORE constraints on LEOs, ones that coincide with the Constitution. For example, are you afraid of my dog during raids? Fine. Call and make an appointment with me, and I’ll secure my dog before you come on the premises. I don’t give a shit about your evidence collection. Lose it, but don’t violate my rights. If you’re an American LEO, you aren’t a Soldier or Marine. LEOs are to be constables, peace officers. If you and the rest of the LEOs cannot fulfill that function because you imagine you are at war, then resign your post and find another line of work. You’re a danger to us all.

  15. On April 30, 2014 at 3:44 pm, Brendan Doran said:

    For at least the second time, I’m not Law Enforcement and never have been. I’m an Army Veteran and no current duty status, and my actual civilian job is telecommunications.

    There are actually many veterans who are police, and some of them are National Guard or Marine Reservists. This means they are both. As some of them are friends and even family I’m inclined to defend them. I’m quite certain I’m right, as apparently are you. Now if this could be called a plan I’d evaluate it as a certain loser, but of course there’s no plan. Just sentiments that if tested would certainly fail.

    Thanks for the Blog. As far as this debate I think we’ve made all the relevant points. Thank you for your answers. I probably won’t bring up this matter again.

  16. On April 30, 2014 at 3:46 pm, Herschel Smith said:

    The fact that you’re still discussing LEOs and military shows that you missed my points all along. I couldn’t care less how many LEOs served in Iraq. I am protected by the U.S. constitution, Iraqis aren’t. Want to come in my home, call and make an appointment or you might get shot if I think you’re an intruder in the middle of the night.

  17. On April 30, 2014 at 3:52 pm, Brendan Doran said:

    I’m mentioning them together as in fact they are becoming increasingly the same. Whether or not this is a desirable thing it is fact. I think it’s a terrible idea as I indicated earlier.

    You are not protected by Parchment if it’s not defended by force.

    I think your hatred of LEOs is both misplaced and not a winner. Winning is important in this sort of thing.

    Good luck with your endeavors, cheers.

  18. On April 30, 2014 at 3:57 pm, Herschel Smith said:

    And so now we are at a point of agreement. Parchment is meaningless without the guns to back it up. Cheers to you too.

  19. On April 30, 2014 at 4:01 pm, Brendan Doran said:

    We are in agreement on more points than one I think.

    My concern is who is the enemy of Liberty and the Constitution, and perhaps we don’t agree on who that is, I don’t for instance earlier remarks notwithstanding think it’s the voters.

    I would ask you to consider who is actually passing these laws and giving these orders, and why. Nevada for instance was about money and not Turtles. Mind you that was nearly the most expensive gumbo [beef&turtle] in history and may be yet.

    Cheers again.

  20. On May 7, 2014 at 8:29 am, Brendan Doran said:

    This is what I’m trying to get across with the admixture of Law powers, Intelligence and War Powers. That’s it’s no accident and the common element is POWER. If it doesn’t open let me know and I can send as text.

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This article is filed under the category(s) Featured,Police,Politics and was published April 20th, 2014 by Herschel Smith.

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