2017 Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot
BY Herschel SmithMen and women enjoying their God-given RKBA.
Men and women enjoying their God-given RKBA.
The comments on TCJ are far more interesting than the commentary by the owner, and it’s appropriate to survey a few, as well as survey as few from other sources.
“Live and let live” is an iffy proposition with a big cat. I lived at the end of a dirt road 16 miles outside Sedona back in the 80’s. There were no phone lines out that far. My nearest neighbors were an old couple in their 90’s (about 2 miles down the road), so yelling for help if I were in trouble was out of the question. Not long after I moved there, a healthy female started nosing around, but kept her distance – about 200 – 300 yards. Not long after that, I also noticed a smaller cub following her. At first all I saw was their tails between bushes in the distance, but soon I got the “feeling” (hairs literally stood up on the back of my neck) when they were around and I saw more and more of their bodies as they jumped from one part of their trail to another, eventually catching a full view of each of them. But they didn’t come any closer for a long time – months passing by with only their voices occasionally breaking the silence.
I made an almost fatal mistake one time about 6 months after I moved there, when I went for a long hike up a nearby canyon, late in Summer. Coming back down around sunset, I lost the trail and went too far along the creek that formed the small canyon. Doubling back to a familiar place kept me out until well past dark, and the late phase of the moon and cloud cover made it pitch back, so I opted to climb down into the creek bed where I could pick up the trail back to the cabin. Before I could climb back out, I got “the feeling”, and within seconds I heard the lion’s short, sharp call (I described it as a mix between a growl and scream – not at all like the calls dubbed into TV travelogues of the 50’s – 60’s). She was above me up on the creek bank, probably not more than 20 feet from where I stood frozen. I was totally defenseless, armed with only a folding pocket knife, which I pulled out in the hopes it wouldn’t be my last use of it. She called a few more times and all I could think to do was sound more menacing and dangerous than some tasty tidbit – so I yelled and screamed as loud as I could back at her. Apparently she decided I was more trouble than it was worth, and decided to let me live that night, stalking off along the path, her occasional call telling me that she’d finally gone away. It was a long time before I got the courage to climb up and out of there to very cautiously make my way back home.
Later that year, before the snows got too thick, a wildlife videographer came to the ranch and stopped by asking if I minded him passing through with his pack horses and dogs, as he was tracking the lion to film her for a TV show. He promised to stop back by and loan me any videotape he shot for viewing, which I appreciated. The film was well worth watching, as the best footage of my big cat neighbor showed her gracefully jumping from one rock jutting out from the escarpment they were on to another, attempting to get away from the bothersome dogs. They followed her up to a point where the distance between them was about as far as she could reach with her front paw – which she did after tiring of the incessantly barking hound who’d dared to get too close. Smack! went one lightning quick swipe at the poor dog’s nose and he turned and ran yelping back down the rock path, leaving the rest to continue their taunting. Then she turned and leapt about 20 feet from one ledge to another as if it were no effort at all – a distance far too much for the dogs to continue their chase.
I’d acquired a .22 that year, just in case I had to use it, and was glad, as a friend and her young son had moved up there with me by then. About a year later the cat began gradually coming closer and closer to the cabin where we lived. My thought was that if she decided a smaller version of the two-leggeds might be an easy catch, she’d probably try it. Over a period of weeks I heard (and saw) her coming closer and closer, to the point where she was within a few dozen yards of our makeshift outhouse, where we might visit at night if necessary. I was torn between my Cherokee grandmother’s blood in me and respect for all animals and basic survival instincts, but decided this beautiful, majestic lady was coming a little too close. One day I took careful aim and put just one shot at the rock wall directly over her head, sending shards scattering all around her. That was all the warning she needed and we never saw her anywhere near the cabin again, though we would still hear her calling once in a while – way off in the distance.
While I’d never kill one unless absolutely necessary, I agree with the actions of the man in the story above – that cat was getting just a little too close for comfort, and could’ve just as easily taken down a slow-moving elder as one of the house cats it had killed (probably seeing them as a territorial threat to its meager hunting ground). As far out in the wilderness as Westfir is, I’d carry any time I went outside. There are many more wild things than just big cats out there. I still live in Northern Arizona and although I’ve never seen or heard any of the lighter-colored cats around here, I did catch a black one in my headlights as it leaped across a two-lane road in one bound back in 2001, beautiful but disconcerting at the same time.
Sorry , I will not cache my guns . I will speak to my reps , I will explain what OUR rights are , I will act according to the rights bestowed upon me by my creator . Not a keyboard warrior by any means , but I am not going to go quietly into the night so that those in power can gain even more than they have .
If the time comes that I need to hide my guns , then it is the time that our own gov has become that which our founders fought to keep from controlling them as well as future citizens . We then become the resistance to the very people that would enslave us .
My simple answer to all of it is , NO! I will not comply .
At Brushbeater there is an extremely good post on rifles and calibers. This is a must read. He argues for the 5.56mm and concludes in the end that if you could only take a single battle rifle with you, it would be an AR-15. And he speaks with authority on the subject. There are also some other interesting comments at his place.
jbryan314:
Mark me down as another Afghanistan vet who would start with the 5.56. I have witnessed this round do damage to enemy fighters (and one unfortunate friendly soldier) on numerous occasions and it does not disappoint. The velocity is the key with this one. I also now work on a trauma floor at a hospital in a mid-sized city. Currently have a patient who was recently shot four times with 7.62×39. I firmly believe (and the trauma surgeon agreed) that the patient may not be alive (or in nearly as good a shape) if they had been hit with 5.56 instead. They took two projectiles out of this patient. That was it. But 5.56? They’d have had to call in the vascular surgeon to assist in picking fragments of multiple projectiles out of this patient, many of which would be found nowhere near the entrance or exit wounds. We’d have been caring for horrendous temporary cavitation injuries even aside from the actual wound channels themselves.
All of the trauma surgeons and vascular surgeons I work with have said the same thing to me, because I asked the question. They hate dealing with 5.56 wounds more than the others, because the damage is bad and it’s hard to repair and clean up.
This is a really interesting comment and it certainly comports with what we already know about the ballistics and lethality of the 5.56mm. However, I wonder whether the trauma doctors and vascular surgeons he works with have seen wounds inflicted by the 5.56mm. I doubt that AR-15s are used that much in crimes in America. Or perhaps some of the trauma doctors and vascular surgeons worked in the military before working at whatever hospital he works at. I also don’t know the commenter or the context of his statement. I would like to hear more detail on his experiences.
CB:
There is wisdom in your article….as usual.
Thanks.
I grew up with the Garand, shifted to NM M1A, but thought I would like an AR platform in 308. Bought one of good quality and good reputation. It beat the piss out of me. Not fun to shoot. Went back to the M1A. Pleasure to shoot.
Still wanted an AR platform but bumped to the lower caliber 556. Pleasure to shoot.Still like my one holer .308 bolt guns the best.
I’ve heard that before as well. For those who have a large bore weapon, it simply “beats the piss” out of them. I know when I shoot my .270 rifle, it isn’t fun any more after 60-80 rounds – not that I would want to shoot more than that anyway, since the ammunition is so expensive. Any practice with a rifle must consider the cost of the ammunition, as well as its weight in battle.
Via reader Pat Hines.
These are must see videos. If you don’t do anything else today, watch these. Act accordingly.
Fred Tippens sends this.
WESTFIR — A cougar was shot and killed Sunday at Casey’s Riverside RV Park in Westfir after it had spent at least a week prowling around the mobile home portion of the park, residents said Thursday.
“It was after the feral cats,” Gayle Murphy, 68, said. She lives at the park between Highway 58 and the Middle Fork of the Willamette River, just west of Oakridge.
The 100-pound, male mountain lion was full grown but thin, Murphy said. Recently, she said, the animal had crawled onto the porches of her neighbor. It would come in from the nearby forest, following a dry creek bed.
“The cat had a pattern,” she said. “He was (at the park) about every other night.”
The cougar was shot about 100 yards from Murphy’s fifth-wheel trailer, where she’s lived for the past year, she said.
The man who shot the cougar has parents who live in the mobile home park, said Randy Christian, owner of the park. He said the cougar, which residents had seen off and on for at least a week, came into their backyard and the son shot at it.
“There were two shots,” Christian said. “One shot hit the cougar, and it ran down into the trees and they found it dead down there.”
He said the man then called Oregon State Police. An OSP wildlife trooper responded, didn’t issue any citations and took the cougar’s carcass.
Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife spokeswoman Michelle Dennehy in Salem said the shooting was allowed under state law. “The person who took the cougar was legal to do so under statutes that allow killing of cougars causing damage or public safety issues,” she said.
She confirmed that the cougar had been at the mobile home park recently and it had killed house cats. She added that the mountain lion was two or three years old and thin for its age.
ODFW officials estimate about 6,400 wild cougars live in Oregon, Dennehy said, particularly in the southwest Cascades Range and the Blue Mountains in Eastern Oregon.
Nestled in the foothills of the Cascade Range, Westfir is in mountain lion country.
“There is a healthy population of cougars that live in that area,” Dennehy said.
The presence of the mountain lion had unnerved mobile home park residents, Murphy said.
“This cat was definitely too used to this environment, and he either needed to be moved or shot because he was a danger to us,” she said.
Mid-way through the article I was about to say that they only made one mistake – they called the police. On the other hand, it sounds as if he reacted with some wisdom.
Look, for all of you environmentalist types who think we’re invading their territory and we should just learn to live with them because we’re in their back yard, not ours, you’ll think that way until a mountain lion takes the scalp off a friend or family member and kills them (it’s happened before). Then you’ll change your mind if you have any sense at all.
Always carry guns. You can no more let an animal harm you and destroy your belongings than let a man do it.
Reader David Dietz sends this from Recoil.
Amid ongoing reports of deteriorating sales in the black rifle market, firearms manufacturer Daniel Defense laid off an undisclosed number of employees. According to conversations with those affected and social media posts, on Friday, Sept. 29 and Monday, Oct. 2., the firearms manufacturer eliminated approximately 100 full-time positions.
A former employee of Daniel Defense affected by the layoffs said, “This was very unexpected. All of us were handed a blanket packet that explained everything. The paperwork didn’t even have my name on it. All they said about my job was that my position was being eliminated. There was no severance package, we were just fired.”
The scope of the layoff is unknown, but firsthand sources including current and recently laid off employees speaking under the condition of anonymity said anywhere from a third to a half of the company’s workforce was affected.
Speaking about the terms of employment at Daniel Defense and the layoff, one laid off employee said, “We all had to sign a non-compete. I think the non-compete I signed was for 2 years. The outgoing talk and paperwork didn’t specify the non-compete being lifted. It’s unfortunate for a lot of people who don’t have skills outside of the industry.”
According to former employees, Daniel Defense’s post-termination non-compete clause is contained in a standard employment agreement employees sign as they are brought aboard. It is used to protect the employer’s interests by preventing employees from working for a competing company for a certain amount of time, stipulated in the non-compete clause.
When asked about the existence of a post-termination non-compete agreement, the terms, and whether it will be enforced, officials from Daniel Defense refused the opportunity to comment.
Well, Daniel Defense has a right to force employees to sign non-compete agreements as a condition of employment. But this is a shame for the former employees of Daniel Defense, who only know how to do one thing. Hopefully they can keep their machinist skills up-to-date enough to return to the workforce when the agreement has been fulfilled.
On the other hand, one has to question the wisdom of Daniel Defense. If they were prepared to throw good money after Super Bowl commercials (and apparently they were), and if their rifles are almost priced out of the market, and they are, then it seems wise to cut costs and MSRP, tighten the belt, and even cut employee salaries in an attempt to stay afloat.
This way (with the history of the non-compete agreement preventing employees from seeking other similar gainful employment), it would seem to me hard to hire good employees in the future.
The Alaskan remarks thusly.
Had he been a precision sniper, given the target rich environment and the ability to follow up shots in such an environment, his gruesome tally would’ve been much deadlier, I believe.
The manner in which he carried out his mission seems to have been weighed more heavily towards the political sphere and the “shock” of it all, than the actual “targeted” killing of individuals, as would have been the the case if optics and precision shooting had been the tactic.
Bump stocks just aided in his mission of “shock and awe,” which really seems to have been his motive to his madness.
I believe so too, and that’s just the point made by Mark Quimby (via Codrea). I believe that this is the Mark Quimby here.
CUSTER | Last week, a young mountain lion wreaked havoc on Lila Streff’s life, killing one of her goats, a duck, a house cat and, judging by the amount of feathers scattered in its deadly wake, a chicken. But thanks to her 14-year-old son, the mountain lion didn’t get away with it.
That Wednesday morning began with a gruesome discovery: a bloodied goat lie dead on the ground behind Streff’s house, 10 miles south of Custer near Pringle. The owner of Black Hills Goat Dairy, single mother of six, and grandmother to nine, soon discovered it was one of the young bucks she keeps pastured behind her home.
For better than a decade, Streff has milked 38 others, as well as eight dairy cows, making deliveries to Custer on Tuesdays and Rapid City on Fridays. But this was the first animal she had lost to a hungry mountain lion.
“We can see the goats right off the back porch, and we saw one lying on the ground back there,” she said on Tuesday. “We went right out and looked, and it was dead. We also saw a trail of destruction from the chicken coop with a dead cat, a dead duck and a bunch of chicken feathers.”
Streff said she feared the mountain lion would return for more.
“It’s unnerving because I really have a smorgasbord of animals here,” she said. “It’s like Golden Corral. If you don’t stop it, you’ll be at the mercy of the lions. I also have grandchildren out back occasionally, and I was worried.”
Streff credits “fearless” Isabella, one of her four Great Pyrenees, with chasing off the mountain lion before it could feast on its victim. While praising her prized 80-pound dog, Streff said she was still saddened at the loss of one of her goats.
“We’ve seen Isabella get in a fight with a lion before,” she said. “She’s fearless, and she’s not afraid of them. But this is the first animal we’ve lost in 10 years.”
Streff reported the incident to the state Game, Fish & Parks Department and said she and her two children whom she home-schools waited around most of the day for a conservation officer to show up. And they kept watch out back lest the mountain lion return for its kill.
After a long, sad day, Streff’s youngest child, 14-year-old Dalton, who fancies himself a hunter, told his mother he was going to go sit in the backyard and await the return of the beast that had killed their young goat. The 5-foot-10, 130-pound, brown-haired teenager, who had previously completed a hunter’s safety course, brought with him his 30.06-caliber Remington rifle he won last year in an NRA raffle.
Lacking a proper blind in which to shelter himself from approaching critters, Dalton opted instead for a Little Tikes playhouse conveniently located in the backyard. There on a chair he sat, scanning the surrounding woodlands for the killer cat.
His mother was skeptical.
“He decided he was going to go sit out there until 7, when he had to do milking chores,” Streff said. “He said he’d go back out again at 5:30 in the morning if it hadn’t returned that night. But even though it was a possibility, none of us expected the cat to come back that evening.”
A half-hour later, as the sun began to set behind the Ponderosa pines, Streff heard a single, staccato gunshot pierce the silence of their remote Black Hills home.
“So I ran outside, and Dalton threw his arms in the air and screamed, ‘I got it,'” Streff said.
Read the rest at Rapid City Journal. I think’s its awesome that this young man is home-schooled. I also think it’s awesome he got the dangerous critter. A man can’t let a dangerous animal destroy his belongings and endanger his family any more than he can let a man do it. Despite the title of the article, I don’t think this has a thing to do with revenge.
As for fancying himself a hunter, I don’t think so. This young man has guts, and a lot of patience to boot. He doesn’t fancy himself a hunter, he knows he’s a hunter.
Or Slide Fire stock. Hey, the dude can hardly hold onto that M203. Hey, I suddenly want a slide fire stock if it comes with a free grenade launcher.
NYT:
The National Rifle Association on Thursday endorsed tighter restrictions on devices that allow a rifle to fire bullets as fast as a machine gun — a rare, if small, step for a group that for years has vehemently opposed any new gun controls.
Twelve of the rifles the Las Vegas gunman, Stephen Paddock, had in a high-rise hotel suite when he opened fire on a crowd on Sunday were outfitted with “bump stocks,” devices that allow a semiautomatic rifle to fire hundreds of rounds per minute, which may explain how he was able to shoot so quickly, killing 58 people and wounding hundreds of others. The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has ruled that bump stocks do not violate laws that tightly limit ownership of machine guns, and some lawmakers have called for them to be banned.
The bureau should revisit the issue and “immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law,” the N.R.A. said in a statement released Thursday. “The N.R.A. believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.”
Ignoring the small issues of “shall not be infringed,” the NRA caves on bump fire stocks, as surely as most of the senators and congresscritters will cave, many of whom will have high marks from the NRA.
The NRA is still conflicted as to whether it wants to be a hunter and sportsman organization of a second amendment and gun rights organization. As I mentioned, I don’t have one, and consider them to be mostly a novelty and range toy. I would never put one on a personal defense weapon, accuracy and control being too important for such things for me to consider a high rate of fire as more important, especially near or around other people.
That said, I cannot be convinced that the shooter who landed all of this crap in our lap would have been less effective if he had aimed and fired in a controlled manner than with the bump fire stock, if in fact such a device was used.
The point to be taken here is not that of the bump fire stocks (the senate and congress is always looking for ways to further regulate your rights, even if not constitutionally allowed). Bump fire stocks are merely the latest incarnation of the boogeyman. Tomorrow it will be something else. The point is that there is a world of difference between knowing that you’ll lose a fight, and actually going on record stating that you agree with your enemy.
The NRA. Always squishy, never completely fulfilling their stated purpose, and always disappointing.