Paul Harrell On Barrel Length And Velocity For .45 ACP
BY Herschel Smith
1 year, 6 months ago
First of all, I don’t shoot Remington ammunition. I consider it to be rather weak tea most of the time. It isn’t awful, but there’s nothing special about it.
Second, that muzzle velocity for .45 ACP is quite low. There is much stouter stuff around (Underwood, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, etc.).
Third, I still think in many cases ball ammunition is a fine choice for personal defense.
On October 10, 2022 at 11:21 pm, Sal said:
Turns out a delta of 25 FPS can open up a hollow point vs not.
Wasn’t expecting that at all.
On October 10, 2022 at 11:22 pm, Sal said:
Turns out a delta of 25 FPS can open up a hollow point vs not.
Totally unexpected.
On October 11, 2022 at 2:30 am, Ratus said:
Remington has always had a problem with expansion with even their premium hollow point ammunition.
Their budget ammo has very little chance of being effective.
As to regular ball ammunition being a “fine choice”, in a pistol I want every advantage I can get because they are way less effective than a rifle or shotgun.
FMJ ball just pokes little holes in human targets, several people have been shot multiple times with FMJ and kept doing whatever they were doing that got them shot.
I want my projectiles to do something in the target that causes them to know that they are shot and should rethink what they are doing.
On October 11, 2022 at 8:52 am, xtphreak said:
@Ratus
.451′ holes are not “… little holes in human targets …”.
if a .45ACP hollow point opens then fine, it creates a bigger cavity.
If a .45ACP hollow point doesn’t open …. it’s still a .451 ” hole.
Still bigger than a .355″ hole and you can NEVER count on any hollow point opening … fully or partially.
FMJ does have big advantages.
It’s consistent.
It feeds reliably.
It penetrates reliably.
People who “…kept doing whatever they were doing that got them shot …” weren’t hit in the CNS, a vital organ, or major bone structure.
Most kills are from exsanguination thus:
Bigger bores leave bigger holes (even if there’s no expansion).
Bigger holes let more blood out.
Bigger holes let more air in.
Bigger bullets break bones.
That said, I carry a .45ACP when I can … summer in the South it’s tough to conceal a 1911.
When I can’t carry a .45ACP, it’s a 9mm … with hollow points, for all the possible advantage I can get from the smaller bullet.
Or a .44 Special with 210 gr LFP (ballistics very close to a .45ACP).
To each their own
In their own way
With their own tools
Have a Good Day!
On October 11, 2022 at 10:23 am, PGF said:
Mr. Harrell uses the Remington green and white box in almost every video except those about specific ammo or situations. I think he does this for consistency, which I appreciate. It’s also cheap which he probably appreciates. I don’t think anybody considers it to be serious ammo, although I don’t want to be shot with it.
On October 11, 2022 at 11:18 am, George 1 said:
@xtphreak
Or as Mr. Cooper said: “A 38 may expand. A 9mm may expand. A 45 is never going to shrink.”
On October 11, 2022 at 1:30 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
A lawman in 1930s Texas, he may have been a Texas Ranger in fact – was asked,
“Why do you carry a Colt 45?” and he replied “Because they don’t make a Colt 46!”
On October 11, 2022 at 9:57 pm, Latigo Morgan said:
As I alluded to in the comments on that video – a 185 gr. XTP at ~1,000 fps is devastating on the running coyote meat target.
On October 12, 2022 at 12:01 am, Ratus said:
@xtphreak
But no, 45 FMJ does leave little holes in actual living tissue. So does every other pistol round.
The .096″ difference in diameter between 9mm and 45acp is not enough to make a difference.
Medical professionals can’t determine what caliber a gunshot wound is other than if it is a pistol, rifle, or shotgun.
It’s very easy to tell if it’s a rifle or shotgun.
A pistol wound is just a relatively small puncture. Small enough that a common technique to locate a gunshot wound is a sweep with your light color gloves along a patient to see if you can spot any blood.
Tissue is elastic, to a point, and will stretch then return to as close to it’s original shape as possible.
You can easily see this on paper targets, too.
When you shoot a paper target with FMJ you don’t get neat little maximum .451 diameter holes. You just get a small hole with the paper tearing to allow the passage of the projectile.
This is why wadcutters are a thing.
All pistol cartridges suck.
Some suck less than others, but they still suck compared to rifles and shotguns.
—–
Medical lecture on gunshot wounds. Graphic photos.
https://youtu.be/wXwPtP-KDNk
On October 12, 2022 at 5:21 pm, =TW= said:
What properties constitute an effective handgun cartridge?
Reliable feed & function
Adequate penetration
Energy transfer
Tissue disruption
Bullet integrity/upset upon impact
Barrier performance
Accuracy, recoil, muzzle flash, overpenetration are also factors. And price, I guess.
How best to combine these requirements?
I have been looking for non-expanding bullets that can offer better performance than round nose ball.
A possible option:
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/01/lehigh-defense-joins-other-wilson-family-companies/#axzz7hXetvEFa
Bill is no dummy. Neither is Paul Harrell
FWIW I still load Federal HydraShok in handguns that feed them reliably. SJFP/HP in some platforms, heavy for caliber generally preferred.
Feel free to reply.
On October 13, 2022 at 12:08 am, Ratus said:
@=TW=
Very comprehensive list.
I’d steer clear of the fancy, expensive, non-expanding projectiles.
They are very gimmicky, more designed to look impressive in ballistic gel slow motion footage while not really being any better than an inexpensive semi or full wadcutter with a sharp flat nose.
If HydraShoks work for you, great. But they are a very old design and just as expensive as recent more reliable expanding projectiles like the HST or Gold Dots.
The reason that ballistic gel testing is valid is because of repeatability.
If you can’t repeat your experiment with very similar conditions and only changing the variables that you want then it’s not very comparable with other tests.
Now, Mr Harrell’s demonstrations are valuable too, but are not a consistent or comparable experiment.
There’s a few other people with YouTube channels that do very good ammunition testing.
Matt @Buffman – R.A.N.G.E
https://youtube.com/channel/UCE0hyXJkKD_JyEeoA0OrROw
And ShootingTheBull410 with his Ammo Quests (sadly he’s not testing anymore)
https://youtube.com/user/ShootingTheBull410/featured
And Lucky Gunner has done extensive gel testing of nearly every available self defense load.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/category/gel-test/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
So use these resources to make up your own mind on what will effective for you.
I picked a relatively inexpensive, at the time, standard pressure 147 gr. 9 mm load that seems to expand well in a wide range of barrel lengths.
https://youtu.be/UYk5BdqoK-I
On October 13, 2022 at 2:38 pm, =TW= said:
Thank you @Ratus- your comment, and those above mine are appreciated.
HydraShoks were innovative when introduced. Later designs addressed failures to expand by redesigning the hollow point cavity. (XTP, Guard Dog, RIP etc to name but a few.)
As noted, a hollow point may fail when impacting anything other than soft tissue.
Ball ammo is not likely to fail, but the wound channel is of smaller diameter than that of a properly expanded bullet of the same caliber.
Round nose bullets appear to displace, rather than disrupt tissue. FP or SWC driven at adequate speed might be much more effective.
Monolithic copper bullets seem to penetrate barriers well and retain enough energy to do significant damage. Effect on melons and such is impressive.
On October 13, 2022 at 7:15 pm, =TW= said:
IV888 120 gr .45 ACP:
https://youtu.be/UV_1zXdDf4Y
On October 14, 2022 at 12:49 am, Ratus said:
@=TW=
Modern design hollow points have very generous expansion windows and all of the premium ones (HST, Gold Dots, etc.) successfully pass the FBI barrier plywood, sheet metal, and auto glass tests and still penetrate to the required depths.
Those solid copper projectiles are still pretty light for caliber I’d take their performance with a huge grain of salt.
Melons are visually impressive targets but closer to an ideal expansion target like a water jug then a human or hostile animal.
Also.to everyone, remember more pew is always better than less pew.