Age Limits On Gun Use
BY Herschel Smith
9 months ago
I heard Professor Mark Smith make the observation recently in one of his videos that 18-year olds can vote and serve in the military and therefore age limits of 21-years is inane. This is true enough, but ignores our rich history. Then via David Codrea, I see that the SAF is glomming on to the same sort of argument.
“We remind the court that the Second Amendment refers to a right ‘of the people’ without mentioning age, and certainly young adults fall within the definition of ‘the people’ ever since they’ve been allowed to vote, and generations before that when they were considered part of the militia, and have been accepted into the military.”
Okay I’m really tired of this crap and it needs another reply (I’ve observed this before).
I invite you to come take a walk around the King’s Mountain Military Park and read the placards, all of them, every word. You’ll learn many things. General Cornwallis’ plan for the South was to rely on Tory militia to defeat the patriots and be able to move North to capture Virginia and then engage Washington’s troops. King’s Mountain saw the defeat of that strategy.
Cornwallis could never have won anyway, given the damage the Mosquito did to the health of his troops, the fact that a full thinds of them were in the infirmary on any given day, the constant depletion of soldiers and resources from the insurgency in S.C. (Francis Marion), and the Continental Army regulars.
But King’s Mountain was still a massive blow to Cornwallis. The men in the mountains of N.C. and Tennessee heard of the threats made by the British army and the Tory forces. They didn’t wait. At the time, the crops needed tending (it was the fall of 1780 and they needed to be harvested if the families were to survive).
Rather than the fathers going to war against the Tory forces (commanded by one British officer), they sent their sons into battle. They kitted them up, and lined up along the roads as they left and sang hymns beseeching God’s protection and victory. The boys travelled by night, many miles, in order to engage the Tory forces.
The average age of the sons of America who fought as patriots that fateful day was 14 years old. They had learned to survive in the bush, and shoot and all of the things they did, by simply growing up with good men as their fathers.
Stop it with all of the arguments that people can vote and go into the army at 18 years old. I don’t care about voting, I don’t care about military service. The boys who won the battle of King’s Mountain were 13 and 14 years olds.
Just stop it. I think it’s stupid every time I hear that argument trying to justify firearms use. Boys with good fathers can use firearms at any age the father deems appropriate.
Because families are the central building block of society. The government is not.
Firearms ownership and use is a right of the militias. It is an individual right. It is a God-given right of all men everywhere.
On August 18, 2023 at 12:20 am, 3 If By Sea said:
Just read that Gruesome Newsom of the glorious people’s republic of California (CPUSA/CCP) wants a 28th amendment regarding gun safety.
I’m sure the CPUSA (D) would like to (s)elect him as preezy of the steezy.
Comrade Jack Smith is from the Hague in the Netherlands and his job is to destroy all FUSA election legitimacy from now on?
On August 18, 2023 at 5:50 am, Joe Blow said:
My buddy and I were plinking .22s by ourselves when we were 12, with parental permission. Never shot an eye out (many a squirrel though…) if we wanted to use the shotguns or rifles, we had to get his Dad to be with us, and he was always happy to cart the boys off to the sportsmans club for an afternoon of trap or skeet.
On August 18, 2023 at 6:08 am, Michael Hall said:
I always enjoy lurking here. I do not always agree with you, but your insights are all solid and worth consideration. This one and the family and faith in YHWH is a shining example of what should be. I was trained in the proper use of a rifle by the age of 5. and could take my .22 out after school by the age of 10. with the rule don’t shoot what you won’t eat. Keep up the good work Brother you touch more than you know.
Shalom
On August 18, 2023 at 6:45 am, Nosmo said:
I agree completely with your premise, but today a quite large percentage of males are still children into their thirties. We have – quite deliberately – extended adolescence far beyond any reasonable age. There may be 14-year-olds who have the maturity to duplicate Kings Mountain, but they are not often encountered.
Entirely a societally self inflicted wound, I’m afraid.
On August 18, 2023 at 7:16 am, Wes said:
This is a good and valuable tale in the history of that dust-up. I’d commend to others to get some reference works and dive in deeper. That SC/TN young force also managed to get Cornwallis suckered in further west to the point where his logistics tail was not wagging.
On August 18, 2023 at 10:33 am, Sisu said:
Since the mid-60s or before, constant raising of the “age of majority” in most states has been an advancing tactic to perpetuate disrespect for adults, dependency, lawlessness, and “adult children” (an oxymoronic term, if ever their was one). …
Consider that now under obamacare the age of majority for unemployed, “adult-children” is 26years of age; family health insurance required. And “26” is likely familiar to divorced men whose “children” are yet not emancipated. … Illegals are currently “allowed” entry into the US as “children” even though they are clearly adults in late teens and twenties.
“Age of majority” should be set at “14 years of age” (this has historic precedent); while a state matter, any state once “14” is made law could make it applicable for all who enter their state. [Bad for “higher education”; Good for “local communities”.] …
That “14” threshold would be for all misdemeanors and crimes “tried as an adult”, civil suits, “contracting”, “2nd Amendment protections”, etc. (and a “public” record for life). … On attaining majority, if still a dependent of another, the responsible party would have to acknowledge their role as a “surety” for the new “majoritarian”; if the 14 year old had a “juvenile delinquency” (or they entered the US illegally) record their parent / guardian would be required to post an appropriate bond reflecting the seriousness of the “JD record” or “illegal” status.
If any “adult” on attaining the “age of majority” desires to defer/waive such “rite of passage”/rights for two sequential “two-year periods” until “18years of age”, then the law could recognize such provided that their parents / guardians agree to be responsible for them via blanket indemnification and posting of a bond or letter of credit (say $5.0 million, before adjustment for inflation).
Failure to post “bond / LofC” could yield legal actions such as “civil forfeiture”, garnishment, lis pendens, forfeiture of various entitlements, privileges, rights, etc. (Dual citizen of another country, or illegally in the US – expulsion/deportation (if necessary, “permanent” marks on skin noting “USA Undesirable” and parachute provided at taxpayer expense.))
I strongly suspect civility would rapidly return to this society once the initial “sacrificial lambs” were punished for their “precocious” (aka abusive, violent, unlawful) behavior as adults; and, parents/guardians also realized that they would suffer consequences if their “children” were “uncivilized”.
On August 18, 2023 at 11:41 am, Echo Hotel said:
Thank you for this and all that you do here, Herschel. It is much appreciated.
On August 18, 2023 at 12:56 pm, Georgiaboy61 said:
Re: “The average age of the sons of America who fought as patriots that fateful day was 14 years old. They had learned to survive in the bush, and shoot and all of the things they did, by simply growing up with good men as their fathers.”
The whole idea of teenagers is a modern invention, in other words that there was a protracted period of time in which a young person was in between childhood and adulthood.
In those times, a son raised properly was often considered a man by the time he was fifteen or sixteen, and as your research shows, often even earlier.
In the south where I was born and raised for the early part of my childhood, it was a rite of passage in most families for the father or grandfather to make a gift of a firearm to a boy – typically on a birthday or at Christmas – when he was eight or nine. Old-enough to understand and follow the rules of safety and responsible FA use. First, a BB gun, then a pellet gun.. and if you did well with those, a .22 rim-fire rifle two or three birthdays later.
Most boys were either in Scouts, 4H, or both – or something similar, and it was sort of expected that a boy would know his way around outdoors – how to camp, fish, build and maintain a safe fire in a campsite, etc.
I was running around in the woods and great outdoors all day by the time I was in first grade, playing and exploring, when I wasn’t in school. And I wasn’t alone, my pals were with me. It was great. The only rule was stay close enough to home to hear if your mom or dad called. If you wanted to go further, get permission and let ’em know where you’d be.
Learned archery, too, and had a slingshot. Wrist-Rocket if memory serves. Great piece of gear.
“Stop it with all of the arguments that people can vote and go into the army at 18 years old. I don’t care about voting, I don’t care about military service. The boys who won the battle of King’s Mountain were 13 and 14 years olds.”
The notion of a military service age is also a fairly modern invention, which dates to the rise of the first modern nation-states in the late 1800s. When nations began conscripting vast numbers of men into organized standing armies, guidelines – including age – were standardized to make the work more-streamlined and easier.
But throughout most of human history, including our own as a nation, an “able-bodied man” was not defined by age, but by capability. During the War of Independence from Britain, not only did young males of 12-14 years of age take part, men like Samuel Whittemore did, too. Whittemore (1696-1793) is generally-agreed by military historians to have been the oldest-known combatant in the Revolutionary War. He fought at Lexington and Concorde, at the age of seventy-eight.
After successfully engaging and killing three Redcoats with his musket and two dueling pistols, he drew his sword and attacking approaching British troops hand-to-hand. Outnumbered, Whittemore was shot once and bayoneted multiple times, and left for dead in a pool of his own blood. Taken to a local doctor, Whittemore was declared beyond saving, but he recovered and lived another eighteen years.
Now that’s one tough (old) man!
On August 18, 2023 at 1:23 pm, PGF said:
At any age, the age argument is erroneous if applied to government mandate. God instituted three governments; His Church which is the body of Christ; the family with the Father as the head obedient to Christ; and civil government.
Civil government is the lowest form, not the highest. Government has no business whatsoever in the family or in the Church. Modern Christianity is so broken that they can’t even understand the bible. What do you think the prophets of old were doing when God called them out to go make judgment, rebuking the kings, nations, and rulers? God constantly condemns civil authority for overstepping into the domains of the Church and Family. John Baptist and Jesus Christ himself proclaimed judgment against the rulers of Israel for ruinous religious and civil leadership.
How does the law read? “37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
America has essentially made government its god, and that’s why you’re losing your civilization. Government has zero business, especially to claim moral certitude, in the affairs of the Church or Family, except that it punishes the evil-doer. Having done no evil, a father, Christ as his God, is under full authority to raise his children, even for the purposes of going armed in public at any age.
You might object and say there ought to a standard. There IS a standard! It’s set by God Almighty; the father determines the days and seasons of his sons as he trains them in the ways of men under God.
On August 18, 2023 at 2:54 pm, Porkpie said:
The formal policy of the Continental Army was to recruit soldiers as young as 16, but little effort was made to weed out boys younger than that who volunteered provided they were tall enough to carry a Brown Bess at “sling arms” without the buttstock dragging the ground.
There were at least hundreds and probably thousands under the age of 18 who fought on both sides of the War Between the States. On 15 May, 1864, the Cadets from the Virginia Military Institute were ordered into battle at New Market (the Field of Lost Shoes). Ten 10 were killed or died from wounds received. Two of them, Cadets Thomas Garland Jefferson (great-great nephew to President Thomas Jefferson) and Henry Jenner Jones were not yet 18.
As the war wore on, more than age, the chief requirement was that recruits have at least four teeth, all on the same side, two uppers and two lowers, else they wouldn’t be able to bite and tear open the paper ammunition cartouche.
On August 18, 2023 at 3:28 pm, PGF said:
father in the first paragraph should not be capitalized.
On August 18, 2023 at 3:47 pm, Porkpie said:
And that’s without mentioning the fact that the services today all will accept recruits as young as 17, provided they have parental consent.
Audie Murphy enlisted in the army at the age of 17 years and 10 days. Before he’d reached the age of 21, he had earned three Purple Hearts, two Bronze Stars, a Legion of Merit, two Silver Stars, a DSC, a Medal of Honor, a battlefield commission, and a field promotion to 1st Louie.
If these clowns had their way, when he’d got home after the war, aged only 20, he wouldn’t have been able to buy a Ruger 10/22.
On August 18, 2023 at 9:07 pm, Longbow said:
The age of Majority in the United States was always twenty-one. That was Common Law.
In 1973, Congress decided, rightly, I think, that if you are ever going to conscript soldiers, they had better enjoy all the rights, along with the RESPONSIBILITIES, of adulthood.
So, if a young man can be conscripted at eighteen, then he had better be able to vote, to contract, own and inherit property, etc…
If young men, as a class, aren’t mature enough to contract, vote, inherit and acquire property, etc., then raise the age of legal Majority to twenty-one again.
This is so simple. We’re splitting hairs. When is the age of Majority reached? Do we reduce it to the age of sexual maturity? Aren’t we being absurd then?
We DO NOT draft children into military service. Then when is adulthood reached? When is a boy assumed to be a grown man? Eighteen? Nineteen? Twenty? Pick your point in time, set it, and leave it. If a young man (see what I called him?) is conscripted at seventeen or eighteen, then he had better assume and enjoy all RIGHTS of adulthood, as well as the responsibilities.
On August 18, 2023 at 10:38 pm, pyrrhus said:
Without armed teenagers, the American Revolution would never have succeeded…
On August 19, 2023 at 3:30 pm, SamlAdams said:
5x paternal grandad commanded a company at Saratoga that included my 4x grandad who was only 17 (he was 57 and veteran of the F&I). Younger served through the end of the was and was granted land in KY as payment for service—beat farming rocks in NY. Maternal 5x was a militia officer and his 16 year old son also served out of Orange County. Great grandmother was from an “Overmountain” family in TN—there’s still a colonial era blockhouse her family built in Parrottsville. You grew up fast on the frontier.
On August 19, 2023 at 9:03 pm, Sisu said:
Longbow, Please provide support for your assertion that: “The age of Majority in the United States was always twenty-one. That was Common Law.”
“Majority” was until recently “solely” a matter of state law. “Common Law”, based on English Law, I would have expected would have been, at time of founding, much younger (Romeo et Juliet were but 13 and 12, respectively; Buddy Holly’s Bride was 15 year of age in 1958).
And, to contract in NYS in ’70s was 18years (then raised from 16); as an “amateur” I “voided” (monies returned) several contracts for “friends” (and even one resulting from my own “foolishness”).
On August 21, 2023 at 5:03 pm, Longbow said:
Maybe I’m completely wrong… never mind.