19 Sep 2016

So Can Anyone Tell Me What This Guy Did To Get Shot?

BY Herschel Smith
10 years, 1 month ago

It’s a serious question.  What happened?  He was standing still with his hands on the vehicle.

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Frank Clarke
Frank Clarke
10 years ago

Well, he WAS black, you know… And Tulsa probably uses Glocks which are notorious for firing just because someone’s finger was near the trigger.

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Chris
Herschel Smith
Author
Herschel Smith
10 years ago
Reply to  Chris

Bob’s post is unconvincing, like many of Bob’s posts. I’m going to say what I’ve said before. I know a former captain of a large metropolitan police department who has effected more than 100 felony arrests. He told me he never once – not even a single time – had to discharge his weapon during an arrest. He never had to use anything more than words, and at the extreme end of the spectrum, OC spray. But hey. “Officer safety” went home at the end of her shift.

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robscottw
robscottw
10 years ago
Reply to  Herschel Smith

There is hardly a police shooting that Bob Owens hasn’t attempted to justify.
For example he called the shooting of the care-giver to the autistic man a “bad shoot from a tactical perspective”.
Good grief!
But he did criticize an officer once for letting his police dog die in his car.
That’s somethin.

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Jack Crabb
Jack Crabb
10 years ago
Reply to  robscottw

That’s because Bob Owens is a copsucker of the first order. Along with being a statist. Honestly, I don’t know why people use him as a source. Unless its that stopped clock or blind squirrel thing.

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Haywood Jablome
Haywood Jablome
10 years ago
Reply to  Herschel Smith

I stopped reading Bob a long time ago. The only way I know he is still writing is when you mention him. I know he still draws clicks but I think he is an idiot.

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Douglas Mortimer
Douglas Mortimer
10 years ago
Reply to  Haywood Jablome

Friends don’t let friends read Bob “Cops shouldn’t carry Glocks” Owens.

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Archer
Archer
10 years ago
Reply to  Chris

I saw him lower his hand … AFTER the shot had been fired. I’m guessing he wanted to cover the wound.

I notice none of the other officers are stopping their loitering to render any kind of first aid after he collapses, either.

Something smells here….

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Fred
Fred
10 years ago
Reply to  Archer

I think it was right before. But do those 2 continue to block the camera on purpose? Why just stand there?

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Fred
Fred
10 years ago

Always watch these videos with the sound off first, a couple of times, and analyze every movement. Then listen to the sound and fill that piece of the puzzle in. The sound is often a distraction as it is meant to be in order to confuse and gain attention of subjects. Don’t be distracted and confused yourself. And don’t read anything about it until you have fully analyzed the video yourself. Don’t be subject to suggestion.

I knew she had asked him if he had id or similar before I even listened to the sound.
I knew that it was the female who shot him before I read the article. How did I know that? Her position was set and his movement was casual.

Now sound – Listen to her voice. She is in full freak out panic mode, but let’s back up a sec.

What does a normal, helpful, unarmed man do when asked “Do you have any ID?” They say; “sure.” while they reach with their strong hand, because men put their wallet in the their strong pocket, almost always.
She should NOT be a cop. You can’t expect to never encounter a 240lb black male and then freak out and panic because they do what any rational person would when addressed by an officer. She should be fired for her own safety and the safety of everybody on the force and those in her precinct. This will not be last shooting she will be involved with.

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robscottw
robscottw
10 years ago
Reply to  Fred

How about she be charged with murder since she clearly wasn’t acting in self-defense.

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David Blair
David Blair
10 years ago

If you watch carefully and understand police tactics this suspect wasn’t complying with orders. Police don’t tell suspects to walk forward to the side of their vehicle and place hands anywhere during a felony arrest. You are ordered to lay on the ground facing away with hands outstretched. This suspect went to his car and then reached into his waistband while slightly turning away from the officers. At first glance and with only this footage I’d say they were justified. Of course further investigation should be done as it should be with any officer involved shooting.
To address the comment of the officers intentionally blocking the dash cam. Weapons have just been discharged and those officers adrenaline has their hearts and minds racing in survival mode. The last thing they are thinking is “shit let’s block the camera” They’re focused on;
1. Am I hit
2. Am I in danger of taking fire or are other suspects in our vicinity.
3. Are my fellow officers ok.
4. secure the scene and render aid. They immediately called for an ambulance

All those things take place in a matter of seconds.

Please, before you attack me as racist or some gun toting WASP nut, Clear your mind of the emotional response you have been taught to use from the current oppressive PC agenda. Do a little due diligence and educate yourself about a topic before you respond. Use facts and form logical response regardless of whether you refute or support what I have said. And for pete’s sake please form coherent sentences. It doesn’t have to have perfect grammar or spelling just understandable.

Thank you,
David Blair
USMC veteran 94-00

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Herschel Smith
Author
Herschel Smith
10 years ago
Reply to  David Blair

Perhaps you’re new to this site. What on earth are you talking about? “Current oppressive PC agenda?” Are you serious? It shouldn’t take too long to figure out that this web site is anything but PC.

And no one is going to “attack you” for being gun toting. As for understanding police tactics, I think most folks here do that fairly well. In most cases they suck. In this case they sucked the big one. Most cops have absolutely no muzzle or trigger discipline.

I’m actually still trying to figure out if you wrote this in response to someone else’s comment or if it’s just a general comment about something or other, I don’t know what? Who are you telling to craft coherent sentences? Who are you telling not to be emotional? Who is being emotional in your opinion, and how so?

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LibertyFirst
LibertyFirst
10 years ago
Reply to  Herschel Smith

He’s a cop – defending the bad policies, procedures, and tactics employed. And he up-voted his own post. That tells me all I need to know. If he’s a Marine – he’s forgotten his oath. But he was right in explaining that after a weapons discharge, intentional or negligent – they only care about themselves, and how to spin the story so they are covered.

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David Blair
David Blair
10 years ago
Reply to  LibertyFirst

Liberty, you don’t know me. You’re the type I referred too. Making unfounded and ignorant judgements about me. Inferring that I’m a liar and putting words and ideologies in my mouth.
Honestly I feel you don’t even warrant a response, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and answer your allegations. So put your knee jerk insecurities aside for a moment and Ill educate you.
1. I am a Marine and always will be.if you want to question it i’ll be happy to meet you and shove my DD214 down your throat.
2. I’m a general contractor not a cop.
3. I have never broken any oath, promise or contract I entered.

What are you hiding? posting under some bs screen name. Cowards always flap their cockholes from anonymity. I posted under my name.

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LibertyFirst
LibertyFirst
10 years ago
Reply to  David Blair

As you were, Marine. Just because you choose to use what may or may not be your real name doesn’t add validity to your posts – as few as they are. I choose not to use my real name since I value at least a small amount of stealth/privacy. My call.

Since you chose to reply – here we are. You chose to defend one of two things – piss poor policies, procedures, and tactics, or killers that ignored good policies, procedures and tactics. AND you post as if you are familiar with ‘police tactics’ – so since your aren’t a cop now, you might have been an MP or are now a security type ‘general’ contractor. The department mouthpieces are busy making excuses – saying that ‘they feared for their lives, blah blah’ – SSDD. If they truly did follow all of the policies and procedures – then the problem is systemic and those policies and procedures need to be shitcanned NOW – they kill FAR too many people – 1146 last year, and 790 so far this year – dead at the hands of people who SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

And just so you know –

Keep your DD214 – I have enough of them.
Liberty First –
Gunnery Sergeant – 1976-1990
Semper Fi.
Out.

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David Blair
David Blair
10 years ago
Reply to  Herschel Smith

Herschel, I was referring to the current political climate of our country, Not this website specifically. Apologies if I was unclear on that. And the prempt on any flaming was because some of the posts I read on this thread.
I do agree our police need to enact some serious changes, and that woman cop may have acted rashly. With this video as the only source material I gave my opinion. Love it, leave, or lump it.
If something I say doesn’t apply to you then no need to get defensive, But If the shoe fits by all means wear it and be offended. You have that right.

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Herschel Smith
Author
Herschel Smith
10 years ago
Reply to  David Blair

David I’m not offended (I’ve blogged for over ten years – you tend to grow a thick skin). I just couldn’t make sense of what you said or to whom you said it (and to some degree still can’t). See my response to Jill below. It is imperative that we properly categorize and distinguish between the Michael Brown cases (and recent Charlotte case) and other things like the death of Eurie Stamps, wrong home raids, ridiculous drug wars, reflexively shooting dogs (rather than learning how to handle animals like every man should) and working with slow, stolid people. We all work with stolid people all day long, every day, everywhere we go. That doesn’t give us a right to shoot them and we would be imprisoned for such things. Cops shouldn’t be able to do this either, viz. Tennessee v. Garner. We need the same standard for everyone. We have as much right to self defense as police. If police can’t handle the job they’ve taken, they can quit and find another.

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Jill
Jill
10 years ago

He should have listened. Full stop!!
Stop feeding the BoweL Movement!!

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Herschel Smith
Author
Herschel Smith
10 years ago
Reply to  Jill

It has absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin. Maybe he thought he was complying. Maybe he didn’t hear because he’s hard of hearing. I don’t know everything, and neither do you. Maybe he didn’t do a very good job of following directions because he’s dense.
What we DO know is this. Police are legally allowed to pull their weapons and discharge a round ONLY when their life is threatened, not to enforce law. See Tennessee v. Garner. That’s the same criteria that applies to me, and you too will have gone over this in your concealed handgun permit classes.
If I had done what these officers had done, I would be in prison because my life would not have been under threat. There is a double standard in America, but police have no more innate right to invade my home, invade my personal space (automobile), shoot my dog, or set foot on my property than I do to someone else, court order or not.

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Daniel Barger
Daniel Barger
10 years ago

This incident is typical of many bad shootings. The victim contributed to his demise by his erratic or unprompted actions. That however does not change the LAW which states that deadly force is only legal in response to a credible, imminent threat. NOT to someones fears or unfounded beliefs. The female officer stated that she had never been so scared in her life. And scared people do STUPID THINGS….and in this case illegal things. This is a classic example of why the lowering of physical standards for law enforcement is a bad thing. A female who is half the size of a man she is attempting to arrest has essentially ZERO options to effect that arrest if the subject refuses to cooperate. She has two choices….let him go or KILL HIM as she has really no other viable options. She also was not alone. Other officers rapidly arrived and their presence massively diminished any threat to her she may have been able to articulate. None of the other
officers fired thus they must not have felt threatened as the only other use of force was a taser.
The subject is dead partly because he refused to cooperate…..a stupid action. But NOT an action that justified the use of deadly force. The use of deadly force in this case was not warranted and is not legal. Manslaughter First degree is an appropriate charge. Hopefully the DA will seat a rational jury and not allow the defense to empanel a jury of bootlickers and brain donors.

The law is the law. It applies to EVERYONE, otherwise it’s not law, just arbitrary rules to be
ignored when and wherever possible. This cop made a seriously bad choice, a massive error in judgement. And such actions demand and require that she be punished for this act.

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You are currently reading "So Can Anyone Tell Me What This Guy Did To Get Shot?", entry #15619 on The Captain's Journal.

This article is filed under the category(s) Police and was published September 19th, 2016 by Herschel Smith.

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