Goodbye To The Army And Marines: Political Correctness Has Taken Over

BY Herschel Smith
4 years, 5 months ago

As precursors to my analysis, take note of the following inconsistencies and contradictions.  First, Dr. Steve Metz, Professor at the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, in response to Sharia is coming, left this comment: “Should we worry about the creeping influence of the Boy Scout laws? More people follow that in the United States than sharia.” Note well.  Steve is comparing Boy Scout law with Sharia law.  This Boy Scout law – compared to this sharia law.

On the other hand, because of political correctness, in the Spring of this year, US Army Lieutenant Colonel Matthew Dooley was condemned by the Joints Chiefs of Staff (JCS) and relieved of teaching duties at Joint Forces Staff College for teaching a course judged to be offensive to Islam.  The course he taught, Perspectives on Islam and Islamic Radicalism, was an elective course that Lt. Col. Dooley’s superiors judged as presenting Islam in a negative way. His superiors were persuaded to come to this conclusion after receiving an October 2011 letter in which 57 Muslim organizations claimed to be offended by the course.  The fact that Lt. Col. Dooley is a highly decorated combat veteran with  nearly 20 years of service under his belt apparently held little or no sway with the JCS.  As a matter of fact, JCS Chairman General Martin Dempsey “personally attacked” Lt. Col. Dooley on C-Span on May 10, 2012, during a Pentagon News Conference.

Next, take note of the fact that females are now matriculating at infantry officer training at Quantico.  This is certainly in line with Andrew Exum’s counsel concerning his own branch of the service: “I see no compelling reason why women should not be allowed to attend Ranger School. As far as I am concerned, if a woman really wants to run around a sawdust pit at two in the morning screaming “Ranger!” while periodically stopping to low-crawl for 50 meters, we have a constitutional — nay God-given — responsibility to allow her to do so.”

But now consider what Former Spook observes concerning women in combat MOS.

Almost 20 years ago, columnist Fred Reed published results of an Army study, comparing fitness levels among male and female soldiers. The data reaffirms that most women simply lack the upper body strength and endurance required by an Army infantryman, a Marine rifleman, or most special forces MOS’s.

The average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to suffer fractures as men.

The Commission heard an abundance of expert testimony about the physical differences between men and women that can be summarized as follows:

Women’s aerobic capacity is significantly lower, meaning they cannot carry as much as far as fast as men, and they are more susceptible to fatigue.

In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are at the level of the male median. The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50 year-old man.

Finally, take note of the undercurrents in the suicide prevention department of the DoD.  We can trust our men with the most lethal weapons known to mankind, but the desire now is to give commanding officers authority over personally owned weapons.  As one commenter has noted, the concept of “at risk” is subjective, which is the same reason that such medical assessments cannot ever be allowed to preclude the right to own firearms in the civilian community.

My son routinely hauled 120 pound(+) kit off the line as a fleet Marine, including his time in Fallujah, Iraq, between body armor (including SAPI plates), backpack, weapon, SAW drums plus ammunition, hydration system, and so on and so forth.  Recall this picture from the assault into Helmand in the summer of 2009?

This Marine is carrying his kit plus a mortar plate.  He is probably crossing the line at greater than 150 pounds.

My son trained as a fleet Marine before the age of political correctness.  Strong, male Marines – not reserve Marines, but hard core regular duty infantry Marines – would need to take several shots of whiskey and 1000 mg of Ibuprofen to kill the pain prior to their twenty miles humps with full kit on 100 degree F (+) days at Camp Lejeune.  Negligent discharges brought a season in the so-called “room of pain.”  Laying back on the humps brought time in the room of pain.  Failing to qualify well on the range brought time in the room of pain.

Fun time involved laying down to sleep in the swamp overnight at Camp Lejeune (as ordered) and having to strip naked the next morning so that your buddies could burn the leeches off with cigarettes.  Or, how about that extended time at Fort A.P. Hill when the NCOs gradually removed everything the Marines had, from tent, to sleeping bag, to food, to winter clothing.  Then, it was time to sleep one winter night on that outing, and there was no way to stay alive unless Marines huddled, hugged, laid down together, shivered and threw leaves over themselves for the night.

You get the picture.  But my son left the U.S. Marine Corps because, in his own words, “the Corps is changing.”  He couldn’t train his boot Marines the same way he was trained.  He wasn’t allowed.  He had initially intended to extend so that he could go to Afghanistan with his boot Marines because he felt responsible for them.  But he believed that a lot of good men would perish in Afghanistan, and that he couldn’t make a difference in that.  So he left, along with all of the other Marines who had experience from Iraq.

If you have some sort of androgynous, genderless vision for the armed forces – if you believe that Navy Corpsmen should be able to treat the field diseases of both men and women and understand what mud and parasites in the various different cracks and crevasses and holes of men and women do, if you believe that men and women are on equal footing pertaining to physical abilities, if you believe that machines like the ridiculous Army future combat systems robotics and the silly machines like the big dog can ever replace mules and the backs of infantry Marines, if you believe that men and women will be able to interact socially as a cohesive fighting unit without the behavior that attends the opposite sexes – I think you’re weird and creepy.  Not that we can’t be friends, but just that you’re weird and creepy, at least to me.  Machines cannot replace strong men, and even the Russians found out in Afghanistan that women had a higher number of lower extremity injuries than men, causing severe under-manning of forces.  Exum believes that we have a constitutional and God-given duty to allow women in Ranger school.  I’m a constitutional aficionado with seminary training, and I don’t think Exum can prove either of those assertions.

As for Steve Metz, he isn’t stupid, he has just let his political and religious bigotry cloud his scholarship, leading to the stupid things he said about Sharia law.  But it’s okay to have Steve Metz saying those things as long as we don’t let contrary positions be taught.  We wouldn’t want to offend anyone, would we?

As for the personal possession of guns by Soldiers and Marines, how about this proposition.  We remove the ridiculous rules of engagement under which they operate and give them a coherent strategy, and see how our fighting men respond.  If not well, then I would be willing to spend some extra dollars to help assess PTSD.  But I’m betting I won’t have to spend a dime of that money.

As for the Army, I kind of expect this sort of thing.  But the Marines were supposed to be different.  They’re not, and political correctness proves it.  It’s a sad thing to watch the diminishing of the U.S. Marine Corps, once the greatest fighting and strike force on earth, to political hackery.  I hold the Commandant of the Marine Corps responsible, at least in part.  I also hold responsible a public who allows this kind of thing without pulling the plug on the absurdity of the use of our armed forces for every social engineering experiment that appeals to the self-professed intellectual elites.  And finally, it’s a shame that I have to mention the Commandant of the Marine Corps and the nations “intellectual elite” in the same breath.  How very sad is all of this?

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Herschel, I’m going to illustrate a life in the grunts… When I was active duty at Ft. Campbell it was a life of a lot of walking. We would insert or fast rope in with combat equipment which consisted of body armor, weapon (depending on mission a crew serve too), a Barret 50. cal, and kick out our rucksacks. Our rucksacks consisted of field stripped MREs, a poncho liner (sleeping bags were usually not taken because we needed spare room in our rucks), spare radio batteries, tough books, picks, shovels etc. The RTOs humped over 100 pounds and the rest of the Pathfinder team guys rucks weighed between around approx 80 pounds not counting body armor. Then we would proceed to hump approx 20 to 30 plus klicks all night to get on our objective to set up our hidesites (which consisted of digging in all night and concealing our positions). Then we set in position for 2-3 days and watch our objective and send up our reports. Then when we indexed we would hump another 20 to 30 klicks to get to our extraction point. Airborne operations with combat equipment would consist of us jumping out of an airframe… Read more »

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Movie: Review of The Master Administrative bloat at Ohio State, where the ratio of full-time non-instructional staff to full-time faculty is more than 6-to-1 More medicalization attempts of climate skeptics by psychiatry professionals Why Einstein nev…

Bob Sykes

Corruption and decadence increase until a country suffers a crushing defeat. And then, that country disappears from history.


Herschel, let’s hope that the American public has seen the shameless exploitation of our armed forces and the corruption of its mission and on November 6th will pull the plug on it. Or him, rather.


Agree Bob, but let’s hope that America is more like the Romans after Cannae in 216 B.C. and not, say, France, after Verdun in 1918. The Romans used that horrific defeat to rethink their military and strategy and went on to become the overwhelming military of the ancient world for the next 300 years at least. The French learned seemingly nothing and were still wedded to static defenses in 1940.

Whats happening here? | On the North River

[…] Goodbye To The Army And Marines: Political Correctness Has Taken Over […]

Chuck Pelto

TO: All
RE: It’s Gonna Take…..

…..a Cannae type disaster and it will probably include YouTube snuf-flicks of young American service women captured by the jihads.

It’s going to be ugly, in the extreme.


[The feminist movement died, one millisecond after the first impact. — Niven and Pournelle, Lucifer’s Hammer]


It was that the French learned that attacking static defenses were costly that led to their use of static defenses. Their Chausseur units learned that with sufficient application of fire, infantry maneuver was possible, and taught that to the US doughboys. Part of that application of fire was the French 75mm howitzer, and another part was the 7.5mm Chauchat machine gun.

The French in 1940 had more tanks than the Germans. DeGaulle was a prime theorist of armored warfare, and his counter attack nearly routed Rommel. Still, his counter attack was not exploited, and his ideas were not widely appreciated.

One can learn, but one can learn also the wrong things.

Chuck Pelto

TO: DirtyMick, et al.
RE: Indeed

Generals who don’t support this need to stand up and say something. They need to resign in protest. — DirtyMick

The last act of bravery on the part of any flag-grade officer—short of dieing in combat leading his troops—is to resign and start tearing the government a new hole in its fourth-point-of-contact. In a very noisy fashion.

But these characters are all more political cretins…ahem…..creatures than real leaders who care about the lives of their soldiers, sailors, wing-wipers or Marines. The vast majority of them made their stars by being politically correct megalomaniacs. Look at Wesley Clark. I knew him as an armor batt commander at Carson in the early 80s. He was a POS then and getting a flag didn’t improve him.


[The Mission. The Men. And then Me, if there’s any time left over.]

P.S. For most of the flag-grades we’ve got now, they’ve got the order bass-ackward…..


Big Army just can’t wait for this war to be over so it can go back to its AER campaigns, spring cleaning, endless four day passes and NTC rotations. The war has been distraction for the careerists and ticket punchers. They have been hiding away, making silly rules and waiting for this to be over so they can get back to great social experiment called the US Army.

There is a complete breakdown between the man walking point and the Ivy League generals paraded in front of Congress.

Riddle me this Batman- how many Aviation Brigades deployed to Afghanistan- Never more than two. That’s not a Joe walking point decision, that’s a General officer call. So the West Point wine and cheese crowd can’t even get the force level right in a war; Prime example -N2K, but they can tinker with the foundation of the combat arms branches.

Jim Shute

Let’s not forget that years before Dooley, there was Steven Coughlin, whose contract with the Defense Dept. to instruct officers on the nature of Islam & sharia was canceled, presumably because his instruction did not subscribe to the Bush myth of Islam as the “religion of peace.” Vis-a-vis Islam, Bush & Obama are really one and the same.


A perfect example of the differences in lower body strength can be found at Fort Jackson. A quick drive through that base will reveal an astounding number of females walking around with crutches. Why are they on crutches? One jump out of the back of a five-ton, without any equipment, is enough to fracture the female pelvis.


We’re going to get our a** kicked in the war for a couple years, until the few adults left take over.

To be sure, If Almighty God is done with the USA, we’ll simply get our a** kicked.


Rich K

The American public is too busy playing with their I-Phones to care about the status of the Marines or any other damn thing. Go ahead and ask any 20 something who has not served what Duty,and Country means,and hear the words,WHAAAATS Thaaaat? I need a drink,later Gents.

John Stephens

Is “This Kind of War” by T. R. Fehrenbach no longer on the Officer’s Reading List? Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it, and if Task Force Smith is no longer remembered then we must suffer another one. Though I pity the soldiers and marines who must pay for the lesson.

Melissa Schneider
Gentlemen, I proudly served in the USMC from 1987-1996 as a woman Marine Officer. I was stationed at 4th Bn RTR USMCRD Parris Island from 1989-92 training women recruits. Trust me, there are former military women who do NOT think this is a good thing. I told DACOWITS the same things in 1992. Some how or another a friend of mine was contacted by Milos Balac, a producer from Huff Post Live, wanting participants to discuss “… gender neutrality in military training and we would love to feature the voices of some real female military members and veterans, specifically from the Marines because of the recent news that women can now go through officer infantry training in order to help determine gender neutral physical standards.” She convinced me to participate. Here is what he is going to hear: “Gender neutral physical standards……sounds like a euphemism for lowering standards which will ultimately weaken our infantry ranks. I thought I would have made a good artillery officer and still think that is a good combat arms MOS for women, but the infantry is a special case. Out of the 892 female recruits I graduated not one of them would have withstood the… Read more »
Chuck Pelto

TO: John Stephens, et al.
RE: T.R. Fehrenbach’s Classic

God! I hope it’s still on the list.

Every general officer who came through Benning School for Boys to talk to the assembled IOBC and IOAC classes in 1980 said, ‘Read this book!”

I got it through Tattered Cover once I got to my assignment with 4ID(M) at Carson.

A GREAT READ. Especially the lessons out of Chapter 25, Proud Legions.


[….except in this world there are tigers. — T.R. Fehrenbach]

Ken Mitchell

“Almost 20 years ago, columnist Fred Reed published results of an Army study,”….

Fred Reed is still writing, and for those of you not privileged to read him, he’s online at He is, if anything, even more profane and more blunt now than he was back then. You definitely won’t agree with everything he writes – but you definitely WILL agree with SOME of it.

HIGHLY recommended.


I have believed for several years that the PC attacks on the armed forces were intended to destroy them, that they were all parts of the long march through the institutions that TWANLOCs began in the ‘60s and ‘70s. I am dismayed to read this post and comments because they seem to confirm my worst fears.

Thank you, Veterans, for having put yourselves on the front lines for the rest of us. Active service members, thank you and best of luck.

Here’s hoping the cancer can be removed.

Lorenzo Poe

You thought that the marines were different from the Army? Dude you bought the propaganda! Remember when the marines went to one standard for their pt test? Yep, the female standard.
I am sure that somewhere there is a female who could pass Ranger school, but allowing females to attend Sapper school is why you can graduate but not get tabbed.
So my son joined the Paratroopers cause me and my dad had. He got out after 4years and one 12 month OEF deployment because the Army he joined was not the one he grew up around.
I have had one 15 month OEF deployment and wouldn’t mind another but will probably do Africom. Things are easier at my rank, but you have to be the change you want.


As a young Marine, 28 years ago…I usually carried 120 pounds of weapons and gear WITHOUT body armour…since we didn’t have it then. I don’t know of many women woul could carry that amount of weapons/gear…but then, I’m not politically correct in the least fashion.

PC will lead to the utter destruction of our society…we’re well on the way to that desitination.

Chuck Pelto

TO: All
RE: Heh

Why am I suddenly reminded of Heinleins classic Starship Trooper and the political science aspect about the collapse of the modern democracies?


[Science fiction writers foresee the inevitable, and although problems and catastrophes may be inevitable, solutions are not. — Isaac Asimov]

Joanne Loster
Your comments about Sharia and the boy scouts.. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. but when a course is cancelled because it doesn’t present Islam in a positive light it’s to get scared. Why do so few people see how much freedom of speech and freedom overall we have already lost in the name of “political correctness” — a word which directly says that only some opinions are valid. Anybody who believes Islam is a peaceful religion hasn’t picked up a copy of the Koran and opened the book, eyes open. Religious violence is not perversion of Islam; it’s a directive.. a way of serving Alla by increasing the number of Muslims. Quite apart from my point of view and more important is my right to have it. Ahmedinejab can walk into the UN call my people a “cancer” to be exterminated and not a peep, the US delegate does not leave the room. If, however, I or the teacher you mentioned dare to say something less than complementary about Islam, we better watch out. Now THAT IS SCARY. I never had any experience like that when my son was in the boy scouts. Personally, I have no… Read more »

The politicians should be kept away from who gets assigned to what, absolutely. However, while I’d never argue that female soldiers are capable of or should be somehow made to fit into infantry or SF careers, they do need to be trained to be soldiers… or they aren’t going to be. Complaining that women are essentially the ladies auxiliary when they’ve been *trained* to be the ladies auxiliary is a failure of leadership. How would you train a man if, when he signed up, he was told that he’d never fight, ever? Would you be surprised if he didn’t quite measure up?

The LTC’s class on Islam was stopped perhaps in part because it was politically incorrect, but it was also incorrect in a lot of factual respects. If you want to make people smarter, you need to impart information, not just viewpoints, or facts that are true only in particular narrow senses. As for women in combat, ranger school, etc – there’s only two ways to get there. Either you lower the physical standards, or you keep the standards high. and break women in training, in order to slip a few through and make your inner neoliberal egalitarian feel happy. If you lower standards, men are going to die by the score because a weaker woman cannot pull them out of a collapsing, burning APC, cannot haul two boxes of ammo at a time, cannot dig a combat position in shale in a timely manner. You are straight up sacrificing young men on the altar of your deranged beliefs that equality matters as much downrange as projecting firepower and minimizing losses. If they keep the standards high… well, who am I kidding. They won’t. Combat Arms mainly involves picking up heavy stuff often at uncomfortable angles, moving it around (never fast… Read more »
Sam Beltran

Is this support of Sharia Law and Islam “political correctness” or more likely and order from the President as Commander in Chief and the biggest criminal fraud ever perpetrated on this Constitutional Republic?

Bernard 2LT
I was an artillery battery XO in the Belgian army in the late eighties. Every position in the army was open to women already then and we had two females in the bataljon. One was an administrative NCO doing paperwork (she had no role in the field) and the other was the Bn S2. The NCO was respected even though she played no operational role, because she would participate in the morning PT and run a respectable time in the Friday cross. The LT was miserable at anything requiring physical exertion and had zero feeling for the psychology of command, sounding like a nag all the time. Men would laugh openly when she issued commands. . Even today, more than 20 years later, the percentage of females in the Belgian army is under 15%. This means women will always have to operate in a male-dominated environment. It is not enough to be physically fit. Women in a position of command especially need to know how to deal with men too. How many women can do that ? Some can, I am sure, but most can’t. The problem is : that particular ability is not selected for. In the military, the… Read more »
In the Army my time working with women has been limited due to being in the Grunts and now serving as a part timer in the guard with Cav but I can tell you my experience with them has shown they are not up to par when it comes to playing the combat arms game. When I went to Airborne School in 2005 fresh out of Infantry OSUT at Benning part of our PT Test to go Airborne was we had to do 6 pull ups (to show that we had the upper body strength to pull our risers). When we arrived at Airborne and took the PT Test we didn’t do pull ups but flexed arm hangs because women couldn’t do the 6 pull ups. A large portion of the females then failed out because they couldn’t hack the runs in the morning (even though we did it in ability groups) and double timing every where in uniform and boots. Then I went to the Warrior Leader Course in 2007 (PLDC for you salt dogs) I had a class of 170 soldiers and only 3 of us were infantry plus our combat medic (we were all from the same… Read more »
Chuck Pelto
TO: DirtyMick, et al. RE: Heh In the Army my time working with women has been limited due to being in the Grunts and now serving as a part timer in the guard with Cav but I can tell you my experience with them has shown they are not up to par when it comes to playing the combat arms game. — DirtyMick Same here. However, I will recount one incident. 1-508th IN (ABN) was up at Yakima. Some poor dumb soul got run over by a tank. From the hips down, he was wasted. But still alive. A medivac showed up to get him out. It had a co-ed litter team. The girl took one look at the poor guy and totally lost it. The unit had to provide the other part of the litter team she couldn’t fulfill. Another case in point. Not mentioned so far. The ‘distractions’ women create. Fort Carson, winter training. Another soldier gets frostbitten. The unit calls up the FLA assigned to it by the medical batt. No response. The unit has to evac the man with their own assets. The batt XO goes looking for the missing FLA. He finds in hidden in… Read more »
Chuck Pelto

P.S. About personnel from other MOSs being re-designated infantry and thrown into the fray….

Iwo Jima, WWII, The Japanese are conducting a massive banzai assault on Marine positions. Chesty Puller is calling back to the rear for reinforcements. The rear tells him, “All we’ve got left are clerks and cooks.”

Chesty says, “Send them up. Any alive in the morning will be Marines.”

Steve Metz

Apparently I failed to communicate my point so I’ll try again. I was not, of course, comparing the content of sharia and the Boy Scout law. That would be absurd and I’m not prone to absurdity. I was pointing out that in the United States that there are multiple things that are called “law” which selective groups of people subscribe to but which are not intended to apply to the population at large.

If some American Muslims elect to use sharia within their community and doing so it not at odds with US and state law, that is no different than any other group which applies their own law to themselves. It is not a threat to others who are not part of the group.

And I echo the idea that the class at JFSC was not cancelled because it was “politically correct” (a phrase normally used to deprecate ideas when no more serious critique comes to mind) but because it was incorrect. The course content was more propaganda than education.

Chuck Pelto

TO: Steve Metz
RE: Is That You ‘Joe’?

The Cancelled Class was ‘Incorrect’?

I believe that our host asked you to provide evidence that supports your claim that the class was technically ‘incorrect’ about Islam.

I too would like to see your to that claim.

Please provide it.

Otherwise, all you are doing is what you accuse the course of doing, i.e., ‘propaganda’.


[The Truth will out….one way or another…..]

Chuck Pelto

TO: Ken Mitchell
RE: Fred Reed

Thanks for the link to that character’s web site.

Interesting stuff, that.

I particularly enjoyed the Women in Combat Part II: Letters.

The description of the ‘blood curddling’ battle cry of the demure, petite girl going through the bayonet course was hillarious. Something right out of Police Academy and Hooks.


[If you want to defend a place and keep it safe for democracy, you must do as the Roman legions did and put your young men into the mud. — T.R. Fehrenbach]

Steve Metz

Chuck–for starters, the comment on a slide that “the United States is at war with Islam.” That is factually incorrect. But maybe that’s just my “emotion” (which is sort of a kettle/pot assertion).

Chuck Pelto

TO: Steve Metz
RE: How to Be ‘At War’

Actually, Steve, if someone is at war with you, you are, de facto, at war with them.

Either that or you have totally surrendered.

Don’t you think?


[The quickest way to end a war is to lose it.[

Chuck Pelto

P.S. Got any more easy targets, like that last one?

Chuck Pelto

TO: Herschel Smith
RE: Steve Metz

Not only does he not understand Sharia. He doesn’t understand Islam either.

My brother-in-law is an expat Iranian. Very intelligent—he designed biotech lab equipment sent up to Sky Lab. But not a practicing Muslim. He enjoys Stolies as much as I do.

What’s my point?

When my sister married him. I started looking into Islam.

What I’ve learned in the last 20+ years since is just an open grave for just about anything Steve Metz will trot out about that religion. And though I’m not too familiar with the course that was stopped, I have little doubt it was stopped for the sake of ‘political correctness’ as opposed to reality.


[Political Correctness fails at the point where the image of ‘tread’ meets the reality of ‘pavement’.]

The New Army–Weird and Creepy | Junior Ganymede

[…] instrument of nation-building. And the nation its politically correct masters are trying to build is our own. Comments (0) Filed under: Birkenhead Drill,Deseret Review | No Tag No Tagx October 10th, 2012 […]

Chuck Pelto

TO: Herschel Smith
RE: Addendum

It might not be as simple as the thought that Steve Metz, a.k.a., ‘Joe’, doesn’t ‘understand’ Sharia. It might be that he does understand it. And the ploy that he presents himself as not understanding it is just a cover for another nefarious bent.

Something to consider…..


P.S. I’ve encountered this sort in the past. Sort of a variation on the ‘false flag’ technique.

Seriously. First he represents himself as [average] Joe. And then, via mis-step, he is now Steven Metz?

Please pardon my professionally inculcated ‘paranoia’. It comes with the ‘turf’ after 27 years in the infantry, a graduate of CGSC and some considerable time spent developing scenarios to drive state-level exercises for State Area Commands (STARCs), i.e., the State Adjutants General and their staffs, in how to prepare for national emergencies—think Gulf Wars—and natural disasters—think Katrinas.

This character smacks of some kind of ‘agent’.


[Even paranoids have enemies……]


US Army, made Spec Four twice. 11C40. RVN Classof ’68, Americal Div. worked CAP Units with your boys, Mr. Smith.

Your comments about inferior performance being something that you “would expect from the Army” are out of place, mister. They are divisive in a world where we all bleed and fight together, sometimes against declared enemies sometimes against well-intentioned but misguided politicicans, but TOGETHER.

Clean it up.

Chuck Pelto

TO: thefatefullightning
RE: Heh


’nuff said.


LTC, IN (Ret)
Airborne, Ranger, Mustang
Enlisted 1970. Retired 1997.
Two tours 82d: one enlisted, one commissioned.
One 4ID(M): company command, battalion, brigade, division staff puke (deputy director of the division TAC)

P.S. What’s my point?

[1] Americal WAS an inferior unit.
[2] Divisiveness can be useful. I’m reminded of a barroom brawl at Fort Irwin, before it became the NTC. Paratroopers vs. tankers. But when the MPs showed up, it was paras and tankers vs. MPs. I suspect you can follow where this might lead in the current environment.


I liked most of what you wrote, but I couldn’t let the old Army infantry vs Marine calumny stand.

Personally, I have no gravitas (the advantage of a BSEE when drafted: a Signal Corp REMF), BUT…

To quote my stepfather (RIP) – first wave Omaha Beach- “The Marines ain’t nothin’ but the infantry with a good press agent.”


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