This seems like a fair test for a run of the mill shotgun with offhand shooting. I don’t think it’s a fair test of more expensive shotguns or guns that have been modified and adjusted for distance.
Most shotgun manufacturers have much longer barrels, and trying different chokes would have helped with his shot spread. Beretta has a longer barrel “forcing cone” than other tactical shotguns, and using different ammunition might have helped (e.g., Federal FliteControl).
So if I wanted distance versus a more portable close quarters battle shotgun, I’d install a 32″ competition barrel and use different ammunition. I’m willing to bet that he could land pellets at 100 yards. I wouldn’t want to get hit by a 9mm bullet at any range, including 100 yards.
The .444 Marlin was a brainchild of Marlin employees Thomas Robinson and Arthur Burns. They made the first cases from unfinished .30-06 Sprg. brass before it was necked down and the rim turned to its final diameter. Burns presented prototype ammunition and a rifle chambered for it to Earl Larson at Remington, and since an official name for the cartridge had yet to be decided on, the first test ammunition loaded by Remington was head-stamped “.44 Mag”, because that bunter was on hand. It was later changed to “444 Marlin.” The ammunition featured the same 240-grain bullet being loaded by Remington in the .44 Mag.
Advertised velocity was 2,400 f.p.s., reduced to 2,350 f.p.s. soon after the barrel of the Model 444 rifle was shortened to 22”. The 240-grain bullet proved to be sudden death on deer, but elk and moose hunters desired more penetration on quartering shots, so in 1982, a 265-grain soft point at 2,120 f.p.s. was added. It was discontinued around 2010, but has returned to the Remington Express ammunition lineup with an average velocity of 2,239 f.p.s. from my rifles. Demand for the .444 Marlin increased when several shotgun-only states legalized the use of certain straight-wall centerfire cartridges.
The .444 Marlin is often incorrectly described as a lengthened version of the .44 Mag. The two cartridges do share the same rim and bullet diameters, but body diameter just forward of the extraction groove of factory ammo usually measures 0.464” to 0.467” for the .444 Marlin and 0.451” to 0.453” for the .44 Mag. SAAMI maximum chamber diameter for the .444 Marlin is 0.4747” so firing the .44 Mag. in a .444 Marlin rifle could result in a ruptured case and should not be done.
It would be interesting if Marlin came out with a new Model 444, but given the similarity of this cartridge with the 45-70, it may not happen.
House Bill 3571 passed both Houses this past week with Senate Floor Amendment 1.
SA1 permits counties and municipalities to hire non-citizens as deputy sheriffs and police officers in the same manner as hiring U.S. citizens, as long as they are: “legally authorized under federal law to work in the United States and is authorized under federal law to obtain, carry, or purchase or otherwise possess a firearm, or who is an individual against whom immigration action has been deferred by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services under the federal Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) process and is authorized under federal law to obtain, carry, or purchase or otherwise possess a firearm”
What this means in Illinois, is that you may soon see non-US citizens wearing police badges …
People who have no cultural tradition or history with this country may soon hold arrest powers in Illinois. I wouldn’t be surprised if that didn’t also happen in Dearborn, and many other cities across the nation.
They must be very proud in Heyburn, Idaho. They’ve managed to get the lowest of the low, the most uneducated, the most dangerous and sociopathic, the absolute worst possible people anywhere to be cops. Is it any wonder cops are hated everywhere now?
Another question might be this: Who ordered this killing? What is his name and rank, and why wasn’t be brought up on charges along with the cops who did this?
The cop(s) ought to be charged with: (1) reckless endangerment, (2) reckless discharging of a firearm, (3) cruelty to animals, (4) theft of property under color of law (the dogs were probably someone’s property).
There are many ways to, in Mike Vanderboegh’s words, “Lose the mandate of Heaven.” It seems modern American law enforcement wants to find and effect every single one of them.
I was at a community event last night which included fireworks, and one dog bolted as soon as the fireworks started. A lot of dogs are very frightened of fireworks. We knew, sort of, where the dog took off to, and I spent a good deal of time late last night with tactical lights walking through woods helping the dog’s owner search for him, while I also prayed that we could find the dog before he had to tangle with the Coyotes. We found him late last night. I guess that’s the difference between someone who cares and someone who doesn’t. One searches for lost dogs. Others shoot them for fun.
Also note, this is merely training for them. If they’ll shoot dogs with such callous disregard, they’ll do it to you too. I’ve said many times before, you’re never in more danger than when the cops are around. I guess this is true for dogs too. And I’m wondering since this cop loves shooting dogs so much, if he’s not a good candidate for ATF agent?
Via WiscoDave.
Idaho police officer shot two dogs, retrievers, for being near the highway. The officer was placed on leave and is under investigation.pic.twitter.com/1bq5lOO6ny
Outdoor Life has a great article on various sorts and bullet weights and types of 5.56 ammo. I won’t lift a lot of prose out of the article, and you’re recommended to read his view of .223 and 5.56mm interchangeability. The summary list of ammo follows.
I don’t necessarily agree with everything on the list (e.g., I find Winchester ammunition to be quite dirty). I would also add to the list (e.g., I find PMC ammunition to be relatively inexpensive and good range ammo, and it’s not on the list).
However, this is shooter’s choice. If you have a favorite for some purpose, drop a comment including a URL.
The wheel guns do actually experience muzzle rise before the bullet leaves the muzzle, albeit small, but small at the muzzle means big at the target.
I haven’t done a detailed analysis of it with a “free body diagram,” but I’m willing to bet that the reason this effects revolvers and we didn’t see it with semiautomatic handguns is that the round is in front of the hand rather than at the back of the gun, providing a force “couple.”
I won’t attach a picture here. You can research “couple.”
This is a good video. I’ve shot trap, and I didn’t know some of the rules of etiquette he covered. By the way, if you don’t shoot clays, you’re missing out on the most fun you’ll ever have.
A Georgia gun shop owner has decided to shutter his business, saying he does not want to be responsible for children dying in a mass shooting.
Jon Waldman opened Georgia Ballistics in Duluth in March 2021, hoping to get into a line of work that would survive the pandemic — but as gun sales increased across the country, Waldman noticed that the number of children impacted by mass shootings also shot up.
“I don’t want something that I’ve personally touched, that I’ve helped a client with be used on children,” Waldman told 11Alive. “What stops this [gun] from being used against my kid? That’s the problem I have, you never know the person getting it just because they pass a background check.”
Okay, whatever. On that logic, every person who works in pharmaceuticals should quit because people can overdose, including accidental ODs by unwatched children. Same thing for every cleaning chemical manufacturer, which also causes deaths of children every year. And every worker for a car manufacturer should quit because their vehicles can be used to cause roadways deaths (and there are tens of thousands of them every year).
Anyway, do you see that rifle he is holding? It’s an Ohio Ordnance HCAR. I sent him a note asking what he is charging for it. I have yet to receive a response. Or else, this is a stock photo and not really a picture of the guy selling the business, in which American journalists suck. But we already knew that.
He poses some interesting questions, and I’d like to see this issue studied a bit by him or someone equally familiar with both constitutional and case law.
My own view is that simply putting a sign up at an entrance to so-called government property (like a park) isn’t reason enough to justify a search. That’s not a so-called “administrative search.” I assume and believe that for public places, the rules of “Terry Stop” still apply, i.e., there must be articulable reason for the search such as suspicion in the commission of a crime.
I’ve given this some thought too concerning stops and searches of hunters on public lands. Almost every hunter is aware of his training, i.e., when you are approached by a DNR officer, put your weapon in a safe condition, be polite, and be prepared to have your privacy invaded. He may and probably will demand to see your hunting license and examine your harvest.
But why? What gives that DNR agent the right to do that? The fact that they’re on “public land?” Do the citizens not own the public land? What’s the difference between public hunting land and a downtown sidewalk? Do we allow cops to come up to us and frisk us, demand to identify us, and demand to search our belongings because we’re walking on a sidewalk “owned” by the state? No, most states do not have stop and identify statutes, and besides, those are unconstitutional even if they exist.
Why does a DNR officer have the right to assume I don’t have a hunting license just because I’m hunting (that’s the assumption behind demanding to see my hunting license, right, that I don’t have a license)? Why does the DNR officer have the right to force me to open the tailgate of my truck and examine my harvest? Does he have evidence of a crime to make such invasive demands? Without such evidence, or at least suspicion, does that search violate the fourth amendment?
I would claim that it does. England had rules regulating hunting under the notion of the royal forest. As of the 12th century, nearly a third of England’s land was designated “royal forest,” and only the king’s men and other nobility were allowed to hunt game there.
We don’t live in England. We live in America. We fought a war over things just like this.
I think this is pregnant ground to be tilled, and I’d like to see lawyers take this up with some offended hunter – perhaps all the way to the supreme court.
An elk guide I know prefers his .357 with heavy hard-cast bullets. SA or DA, a .357 revolver can be made slimmer and lighter than a .44 Magnum. While big-bores have the clear edge in power, bullets of high sectional density from stiff .357 loads hit hard and bite deep. In auto pistols, the 10mm is more than a match, its 180- and 200-grain bullets packing over 600 ft-lbs. Buffalo Bore lists a 180-grain JHP at 1,350 FPS for 728 ft-lbs., also a 220-grain hard-cast at 1,200 FPS for 703 ft-lbs. This 10mm load is shared by Grizzly Cartridge, which also sells a 200-grain flat-nose at 1,250 FPS. Muzzle-energy: a “mere” 694 ft-lbs! Underwood wrings 676 ft-lbs. from a 150-grain solid at 1,425 FPS. Black Hills has a 10mm HoneyBadger load, the 115-grain fluted bullet exiting at 1,664 FPS with 695 ft-lbs.
The only round to challenge the 10mm in standard-size auto pistols is the .400 Corbon, developed in 1995 by Peter Pi on a necked .45 hull. It kicks 165-grain bullets at 1,300 FPS, for 619 ft-lbs. While the .400 Corbon is only commercially chambered in a few pistols, the 10mm appears in countless 1911 platforms and other autos from SIG, GLOCK and Springfield — even revolvers!
Why does no one ever discuss use of the 450 SMC for bear defense? I have carried a .44 magnum wheel gun before, but I’ve also carried a 1911 with a stronger spring loaded with 450 SMC cartridges. This round is 230 grains at > 1200 FPS, which matches the 10mm rounds he’s describing.
Furthermore, if that’s not enough out of a semiauto handgun, you can always bump up just a little bit to the 460 Rowland with a barrel and spring change. That gun will send a 250 grain round down range at 1300 FPS. There are kits for this modification.
2 years, 3 months ago
