Carry A Large Bore Handgun For Protection Against Predators When In The Bush
BY Herschel Smith
5 years, 6 months ago
From reader Richard, awful news about a man being killed by a bear in Yellowstone.
BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Grizzly bears are part of life in the gateway communities around Yellowstone National Park, and backcountry snowmobile guide Charles “Carl” Mock knew well the risks that come with working, hiking and fishing among the fear-inspiring carnivores, his friends said.
Mock was killed after being mauled by a 400-plus pound (181-plus kilogram) male grizzly while fishing alone at a favorite spot on Montana’s Madison River, where it spills out of the park and into forested land that bears wander in search of food.
The bear had a moose carcass stashed nearby and wildlife officials say it likely attacked Mock to defend the food. The grizzly was shot after charging at a group of seven game wardens and bear specialists who returned the next day.
Bear spray residue found on Mock’s clothing suggested he tried to ward off last week’s attack using a canister of the Mace-like deterrent, considered an essential item in the backcountry. He usually carried a pistol, too, but wasn’t on the day he was killed just a few miles north of the small town of West Yellowstone where he lived, according to two friends.
While some on social media questioned the inherent perils of such a lifestyle in the wake of Mock’s death, those who knew him said he accepted the risk as a trade-off for time spent in a wilderness teeming with elk, deer, wolves and other wildlife.
“People don’t understand that for us who live here, that’s what we do every day,” said Scott Riley, who said he fished, hunted, hiked and kayaked numerous times with Mock over the past decade.
[ … ]
Mock, 40, managed to call 911 following the mauling and was found by rescuers propped against a tree with the cannister of bear spray in one hand, his father, Chuck Mock, told the Billing Gazette. His other hand had been “chomped off” as he tried to protect himself.
One of the animal’s teeth punctured his skull and Mock died two days later in an Idaho hospital after undergoing extensive surgery.
One more failure in the bear spray category. The pistol he usually carried didn’t do him much good sitting at home. While the risk wouldn’t have been nonexistent, it would have been reduced with a large bore handgun.
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Id wager unless the bear didn’t give warning, a large bore would’ve done the job perfectly well. Bear spray is (obviously) useless. He had a can, and it didn’t help.
Curious if there’s a reference or link available to appropriate “big bores”.
I remember from my time in Alaska that the favored cartridge seemed to be 44M but I still don’t know if that’s optimal for these situations. I remember the guides packing 10 gauges and lively arguments over rifle cartridges but don’t remember much discussion on handguns.
I’d consider big bore to be .45ACP, .44 magnum, .454 Casull, .500 S&W, or similar.
A vast portion of the NE WY hunters I talk to have switched to 10mm, mostly Glocks and Springfields. The opinion seems to be it’s enough gun, it’s lighter, handier, and more controllable than a big revolver, and you get lots of chances for a hit with 16 rounds. Personally I don’t think a 10mm has the stopping power for a grizzly and I have a Smith 329PD that weighs the same as a poly pistol but is enough gun in the opinion of an ex-Alaskan I know.
IMHO surviving a bear attack by any means has a huge element of luck. I have heard of bears being killed with two 9mm rounds and seventeen 9mm rounds. Any gun is better than no gun but carry something appropriate that you can control – bear spray is for tree huggers and to show the game warden you really didn’t *want* to have to kill that poor bear that did want to kill and eat you.
A friend of mine guided bear hunts in Canada and has killed several Alaskan bears. I have never seen him use more than one round to take anything and he doesn’t miss. His rifle of choice generally was a 338 Win Mag but he carried a 458 on one Alaska depredation hunt and put five founds into a bear before it disappeared in a thicket. His pilot advised against going in after it so they returned a day later to find it not only dead but fed on by another bear. He says flatly he would never shoot a bear with a handgun.
@Furminator,
I’ve briefly explained here:
https://www.captainsjournal.com/2021/04/20/10mm-vs-357-magnum-winchester-silvertip-gel-test/
Why I’ll keep my 1911 outfitted for 450 SMC.
Of course, Brownells also has kits for 460 Rowland.
@Furminator
Handguns are easier to carry on-body. I get the rifle vs handgun but that’s not a quick grab vs the magnum revolver on my hip.
If you look like food, you’ll be eaten. That goes double in the bush…. so plan accordingly.
In my youth, I was a field biologist and spent a considerable amount of time in the wild doing forestry survey plots and things of that nature, both in Northern Minnesota and Canada. Consequently, I have experience being near critters that most people only see on TV or read about in books or on the internet. Such as being twenty-five or thirty yards away from from an adult black bear, in the wild.
Black Bears aren’t even close to being the biggest on the continent, but trust me, folks, they’re big-enough to put the hurt on you, permanently. Four or five-hundred pounds of easily-provoked bad attitude and the strength to tear you limb-from-limb. Here’s the thing most people don’t get about bears – how fast they are. They are also great climbers and swimmers.
The only reason I’m still here is that the bears I have been near in the wild didn’t feel threatened by me and didn’t perceive me as a food source. I’m thankful that the bear was well-gorged on blue berries and other goodies, or else my story might have had a different and much less-happy ending.
I was near-enough to a lake that if the bear on the other side of the clearing charged, I stood a decent chance of getting to it first and jumping in. Yeah, they swim well, but I swim better than I climb, so that would have been my choice, had it come to that.
In those days, I was young and dumb, and wasn’t carrying a weapon, other than maybe a buck knife.
Adult black bears can run flat-out for hundreds of yards at speeds of up to 30-35 mph. I know this because I have seen it first-hand. Had an adult black bear run in my headlights one night on a logging road leading into town. I was doing thirty or so at the time, and he kept ahead of my vehicle easily before veering off into the woods again.
Be aware of local bear conditions in your area. The U.S. Forrest Service generally does a pretty god job of tracking them, including during the times of the year when females will be out-and-about with their cubs. That’s when you really have to be cautious and aware of your surroundings. If you are in a closed-in area where brush is dense, be sure to make enough noise that the bear knows you are coming. Some hikers even wear some noise-makers, bells or wind-chimes to enhance this effect.
But most of all, take the well-considered advice of our host, and when you are out in nature, particularly in bear country, don’t step off on a hike or whatever without a capable, large-bore firearm and plenty of suitable ammo for it.
We call it “bear” spray, but most people carry it as non-lethal defense against human predators, don’t they?
GB61: No sarc/snark but serious question: how does one not appear as food? I reckon not smelling like food doesn’t hurt either. Thanks.
@ RCW Re: “GB61: No sarc/snark but serious question: how does one not appear as food? I reckon not smelling like food doesn’t hurt either. Thanks.” Actually, that’s a perfectly legitimate question, so no apologies or qualifier needed. Well,obviously, if you’re up against an apex predator, a large part of whether you are perceived as “food” isn’t up to you. Having said that…. I am not a bear-specialist or zoologist, per se, but here’s what my biology advisor told me years ago, and he was a man who had spent a ton of time in the Alaskan and Canadian wilderness and was nationally-known as an expert on the ecology and biology of those regions. First, be aware of the local ecology of bears – what their level of activity is, where they have been spotted, and other relevant concerns, such as whether it is the season for them to be out and around with their cubs. Have there been any unusual sightings or activities by bears, such as raids on garbage dumps or people’s trash cans or enclosures in inhabited areas? Is there a famine going on or a drought, which is effecting bear behavior patterns? And so on. By knowing where they are and what they are doing, you can plan your activities in such a way as to minimize bear-related complications. Bears are omnivorous, not just carnivorous – this is true in particular of bears whose habitat supports eating things other than meat. Whereas a polar bear needs seal meat or other animal prey to survive most of the time in its native habitat (which may not support a growing season year-round), a brown or black bear can be quite content eating a diet composed of berries, grubs, and other items found in its area, with an occasional kill of fish or game for protein and fat. You won’t as-readily appear as food, if the bears in your area are already well-fed and not looking for something atypical on the menu. There’s a place up in Alaska, I can’t recall the name of the river, it’s near the Brooks Mountain Range if memory serves – but you can go there and in safety from a place nearby, watch grizzly bears feed upon salmon in the rushing waters of the nearby rapids. How is this possible? The answer is that the park rangers carefully control the human behavior in the area so that nothing dramatic or alarming to the bears occurs, establishing a routine of non-interference and calm quiet. Thereby, the bears grow accustomed to small groups of people watching them feed. The second reason this is possible is because, except in a small number of unusual cases, most bears prefer other food sources than humans. In this case, salmon – and since there’s plenty to go around and the bears are full and satiated, no drama happens. A wildcard in all of this is how accustomed to humans the local bears are or have become. One reason bears… Read more »
@GB61: A sincere thank you for sharing sir.
I agree that a .45ACP is a big bore, but I wouldn’t personally trust it energy-wise. I would think a hot 44 mag would be the minimum I’d be comfortable with, but to each their own.
In 2010 right after firearms were made legal in national parks, the very first bear shooting in self defense (after the act that legalized firearms in NP) occurred in Denali with .45ACP. Quite successfully.
With that said, on a recent trip to the Weminuche Wilderness in Co., I carried a 1911 with 450 SMC loaded.
This load gives the bullet another 200 – 250 FPS, or thereabouts.
Anyone who thinks a handgun will protect them from a Brown Bear Attack from the bush, doesn’t live and work in the bush, especially in the Alaskan Bush… Just ask any ADF&G Fish Field Researcher… They are REQUIRED to go in pairs, and they do NOT use Pistols of any kind as Protection… Many have 12Guage, extended Tube 8 shot shotguns with slugs & 00 Buck alternating loadouts or Marlin 45-70 GuideGuns, with heavy Bear Loads… These are folks that work in Bear Country, for a living, every day.. Yes, and even a few get munched anyway.. I live in such a place with Brown Bear neighbors, but I rarely go where they feed, during their, hungry times, because I know better, and if I do, the Winchester Stainless 1300 With extended Tube, loaded as above, is slung over my shoulder, and a 3” Slug, up the pipe… Yes, I see and hear about these folks who come to my area on their “Dream of a Lifetime” Alaska Fishing Trip, carrying their Favorite Big-Bore Magnum Pistol, on their hip… Just plain foolishness… It is what they told Momma they needed to go on the trip, to be safe… and she bought it Hook, Line, and Coffin.. Why did they not just admit that they wanted the firearm, in their collection, because of the “Dirty Harry” cool factor… Give me a break…
BTPost,
You need some advice on communication. You do it poorly.
Your prose is characterized by exaggeration and hyperbole, e.g, “Give me a break …”
I learned early on in my 15 year writing career that readers would slam me, and properly so. It’s easy enough to defeat those kinds of arguments. Give a counter example, such as:
https://www.captainsjournal.com/2020/10/19/defense-against-bears-with-22-rimfire/
https://www.captainsjournal.com/2020/03/26/handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/
Now, if anyone asked me whether I would rather have a 12 gauge shotgun or a handgun when confronted by a large predator, I would say shotgun. But then again, carrying around a shotgun while hiking is another story.
It could be that your position is that as for you and your family, you won’t be found in the woods without a shotgun. Very well. Explain your reasoning and maybe you will persuade people.
But you don’t persuade people with exaggeration, hyperbole and overshoot. Don’t disparage, just explain yourself.
As for you not requesting advice, that doesn’t really matter. You commented over my blog. I can do and observe what I want with it.