These fools can’t wait to fire their weapons. God what a bunch of children. Dupnik has proved to be a clueless politcal hack. If he doesn’t resign and Arizona reelects this rube I will be shocked.

The defense says “hey we ran the siren”, we knocked and announced “police dept.” I am a heavy sleeper, my wife wears earplugs as she is a light sleeper. If she heard the banging of the door opening and woke me from a sound sleep, the first thing in my hand is a weapon. Simply running a siren for 10 seconds, knocking loudly and announcing your presence is not enough. I hear sirens all the time in my neighborhood, I live next door to a volunteer fireman. I feel for the officers who are going in harms way, but why the bullrush? Surround the house and wait. Yeah, maybe a bad guy will destroy evidence, but de-escalation is much better than dead, perhaps innocent, civilians or dead cops. Lets be aggressive when the situation calls for it, and wait when not.

Not only are they incompetent, but also….

Compare and contrast with the Rules of Engagement our forces in Afghanistan are forced by pain of courts-martial to follow.

That may have been a siren sounding at the start but it sounded just like a car alarm to me. That being said, Tucson is not Fallujah, and the police knew or should have known that this was a residence with the “suspect,” his wife and infant inside, not a crack house with six or seven Crips or Bloods. If the police had a legitimate concern that Guerena would react violently to an officer knocking on the door with a search warrant (he seems to have had no criminal record at all that would support such a concern) why not stop him in his car, then have a uniformed officer knock on the front door, introduce himself to the wife, and execute the search warrant? And I’m talking about a police uniform, not BDUs and a helmet. I know it’s not as much fun as pretending that you’re a Delta Force “operator” going after Bin Laden, but that’s the point. You’re a police officer, there “to protect and serve”, not kill the enemy.

You couldn’t get away with this stupid, asinine, idiotic, bumbling, clown-car craziness in a war-zone with people shooting back – but you can kill civilians asleep in their beds at home?? “I honked the horn” is what a UPS driver says when he backs up. Send these bozos back to their TSA jobs.

Ceebee, that would be up to a jury. Some would be fair, some would be unfair.

Sadly, no one will be charged with shooting a SWAT team on these raids because anyone who is surprised by one is killed instantly, even if they are innocent law abiders who want to protect their family.

A lot of people keep getting killed on these raids. It is insane that we would tolerate any more of them.

Sheriff Dupnik has more blood on his already soaking hands.

That may have been a siren sounding at the start but it sounded just like a car alarm to me.

They bumped into his van.

Like others have observed, these men don’t seem at all prepared for the action. They’re stumbling around like a bunch of kids playing paintball. Realistically they’re just a gang of murderers playing cop, dressed up in their tacti-cool gear.

These incompetents need to stop playing Modern Warfare in our streets.

How do these guys sleep at night?

Hmmm.

Let us all think about this for a moment:

The reason why they use these paramilitary tactics is to prevent potential suspects from flushing the evidence down the toilet. So I think it is valid to assume that they are using these tactics because in the past potential suspects have indeed taken the opportunity to flush the evidence. Right?

So what is the downside of having a police cruiser just show up, some officers knock on the door, giving the people inside plenty of time to dispose of any drugs, and then simply say “We of the (insert name here) PD are hoping you’re having a nice day.”.

No drugs, no problems. If the residents had drugs, now they’re going through the sewer system. Sure you haven’t made an arrest. But you have made someone experience a bad day. And if you do it often enough even the drug dealers will get tired of losing their stash every time the cops show up.

memomachine

That isn’t a bad solution. And, if the occupants are any sort of serious dealers, it is highly unlikely all of the drugs could be flushed in time.

otoh, flushing the so-called war on drugs would be an even better approach. This modern day Prohibition is doing about as well as the old-fashioned Prohibition–crime, murders, and absolutely no effect on the availability of the substance. Just let people do the stupid things they will do anyway–spend less money, retain greater freedom, eviscerate the gangs, and radically reduce the Keystone Kop attacks. Not bad

FWIW the doctrine that protects these actions isn’t sovereign immunity, it’s what’s known as ‘qualified immunity’ – http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/q063.htm

The confusion between SI and QI is a common error that you’ll see in comments discussing these issues.

SI applies to states and state agents serving in a representative capacity. This doesn’t extend to police. For instance, legislators or courts could further restrict QI without affecting SI. QI actually isn’t as expansive as people often assume, which is why when the police screw up in these situations they’re fabricating evidence and the accounts they provide to cover themselves. Unfortunately it may be why they so often prevent the victim from receiving medical attention, knowing that a dead victim can’t give evidence against them.

This is nothing less than sanctioned murder.

If you are from Pima County and are not running–no sprinting–to sign a recall petition for Dupnik, you are a total fool.

I’m glad that this video has been made public, because it confirms something that LEO friends of mine have confided to me, which is that the training available to most swat units is nothing like what the public assumes it to be. Some departments do make a competent effort but most have neither the expertise or resources. So the doctrine that results is basically just to overwhelm the target and shoot like crazy at anything that appears to be a threat. This is apparent in the video by the way that they’re hopping around and firing into the house indiscriminately. It’s shooting for the sake of shooting. If they had met any resistance, that wasn’t directly in front of them, they’d never have been able to identify it and would have been entirely vulnerable, the way that they were all bunched up in the doorway.

I hate to be “that guy,” but I must.

Way too much emoting going on. The over-the-top accusations of “murder?” The Nazi comparisons?

This may have been a terrible tragedy, or it may have been a clean shoot. We won’t know until the investigation is complete.

In the meantime, hyperventilation isn’t useful.

So you’re perfectly OK with the “murder” rhetoric? The Nazi comparisons? It’s good to know that you’ll endorse that kind of rhetoric to make a largely political point. That’s also how the Brady Campaign, and their ilk roll.

Your house, your rules… but seriously… consider dialing it back. You’re angry, you’re taking my admonition personally, and it doesn’t have to be that way.

You must surrender to government agents who call on you when you are sleeping. Forget all that training that is now automatic, you ain’t in the corps no more, boy!