Comments on: Lying, Christian Ethics and Islamic “Conversions” http://www.captainsjournal.com/2006/08/29/lying-christian-ethics-and-islamic-conversions/ News & Commentary on Warfare, Policy and Counterterrorism Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:26:15 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Herschel Smith http://www.captainsjournal.com/2006/08/29/lying-christian-ethics-and-islamic-conversions/comment-page-1/#comment-724 Herschel Smith Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:31:57 +0000 http://www.captainsjournal.com/2006/08/29/lying-christian-ethics-and-islamic-conversions/#comment-724 Gene, this is an interesting comment, and an even more interesting link. I appreciate your visit to my site. I think that the connection that R. C. Sproul, Jr., has to the so-called "New Perspectives on Paul" movement is unfortunate. As for RC himself, I knew none of this and know nothing of the veracity or lack thereof of these allegations, but it really makes no difference to the post. You might be missing the point. RC needs no wiggle room on the definition of a lie. I could have stopped with quoting RJ, but threw in Sproul for good measure. In fact, I could have given my view without quoting either one of them. My view is that Rahab did not sin. Lying is justified in certain circumstances. Note the import here. The point is not to redefine "lie" as if we need "wiggle-room." The point is that in certain circumstances, lying is appropriate. I happen to agree with R. J. Rushdoony's and Gary North's defense of Rahab, and disagree with the Puritan's disparaging of her lie. This next point is important: The point of the remainder of the post was to be able to address the issue of forced "conversions" without the baggage of having to deal with this juvenile notion that all lying is sinful. Finally, I cite La Shawn Barber in supporting the idea that one does not lose his salvation in such a forced confession, but still, for a Christian to confess anyone but Christ IS sinful and not appropriate (for reasons other than it is lying -- it is denying Christ). I end with how I would like to go out if I ever face that exigency. I will never know unless God puts me in that position. There are things worse than death. And ... statistics show that ten out of ten people die. Gene, this is an interesting comment, and an even more interesting link. I appreciate your visit to my site. I think that the connection that R. C. Sproul, Jr., has to the so-called “New Perspectives on Paul” movement is unfortunate. As for RC himself, I knew none of this and know nothing of the veracity or lack thereof of these allegations, but it really makes no difference to the post. You might be missing the point. RC needs no wiggle room on the definition of a lie.

I could have stopped with quoting RJ, but threw in Sproul for good measure. In fact, I could have given my view without quoting either one of them. My view is that Rahab did not sin. Lying is justified in certain circumstances. Note the import here. The point is not to redefine “lie” as if we need “wiggle-room.” The point is that in certain circumstances, lying is appropriate. I happen to agree with R. J. Rushdoony’s and Gary North’s defense of Rahab, and disagree with the Puritan’s disparaging of her lie.

This next point is important: The point of the remainder of the post was to be able to address the issue of forced “conversions” without the baggage of having to deal with this juvenile notion that all lying is sinful.

Finally, I cite La Shawn Barber in supporting the idea that one does not lose his salvation in such a forced confession, but still, for a Christian to confess anyone but Christ IS sinful and not appropriate (for reasons other than it is lying — it is denying Christ). I end with how I would like to go out if I ever face that exigency. I will never know unless God puts me in that position.

There are things worse than death. And … statistics show that ten out of ten people die.

]]> By: Gene Robins http://www.captainsjournal.com/2006/08/29/lying-christian-ethics-and-islamic-conversions/comment-page-1/#comment-723 Gene Robins Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:46:49 +0000 http://www.captainsjournal.com/2006/08/29/lying-christian-ethics-and-islamic-conversions/#comment-723 “Is there a time to tell a lie? And them he answered it by saying, yes, you must always tell the truth to whom the truth is due and you must always tell the truth to whom justice requires, the truth was not due in this case.�

While I can see an application there in the case of converting to Islam at the end of a gunbarrel I’m concerned with how much wiggle room that R.C. Sproul is leaving himself with that statement. Based on some things that are now coming to light it’s looking like Sproul probably has very flexible definitions for “truth” and “lie.”

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